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face mills

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  • #16
    And on another note we really shouldn't call them "carbide" inserts. The metallurgy of inserts today has moved way beyond the simple definition of carbide...
    -Certainly, but it makes for a handy descriptor. Having to describe an insert specifically, when such specificity is unnecessary, however, would get as cumbersome as telling your wife "I'm going to go to the store in the 2019 Ford Super Duty Lariat Special Edition Extended Cab Pickup Truck. I'll be back at 6:27PM."

    Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)


    • #17
      Thanks for posting these face mill options.

      The blue anodized face mill, are those SEHT inserts and is that the tang of a SS thread insert I see on it? Looks like a the drive tang of a thread insert on the back side on the retention screw hole. I thought that maybe from a durability standpoint that an insert had been used..

      How do the finishes compare between it and the APMT insert face mills, on mild steel for example?
      Do the inserts on all of these face mills protrude evenly axially? Are some of the face mills better in regards to axial insert runout?

      From your photo:

      Click image for larger version  Name:	image_19955.jpg Views:	0 Size:	78.2 KB ID:	1970120
      Last edited by Willy; 11-13-2021, 11:50 PM.
      Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
      Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

      Location: British Columbia


      • #18
        I've seen some of those aluminum face mills, but considering the wear and tear I've seen steel face mills take over the years- and just day to day, not 'crash' or 'abuse' wear- there's no way I'd use an aluminum one for anything but the lightest facing cuts, with quality, sharp inserts, and only on aluminum or plastic.

        For the price, sure, you can practically consider them disposable, but if the seat deforms and the insert tilts down and spoils the part, it's not really saving much, is it?

        I've been at this for longer than I care to think about it, and always running on a frayed shoestring budget. I've bought the cheap stuff- Enco, Phase II, eBay, CDCO, you name it. Some of it hasn't been too bad at all- I still use the $12.95 1-2-3 blocks I bought from Enco. Both my Phase II AXA tool posts have had extensive use and are holding up perfectly. I have zero complaints about any of the $9 CDCO AXA blocks I bought.

        BUT... that said, I've gone through tons of cheap stuff that cost me more than it would have to buy a good one in the first place. Dial calipers- they were all junk until I bought a $150 Brown & Sharpe, and that worked great 'til I dropped and killed it. That got replaced with a real Mitutoyo digital, which, after just over a decade of near-daily use, is only on it's third battery, and according to my jo-block set, is just as accurate today as it was when new.

        The import 4" Kurt-clone vise I bought a decade ago, was archived here under the heading "polishing a turd". Had it not been for shipping, I'd have sent it back.

        Cheap carbide parting inserts that crack in half if you look at them crossways- in aluminum. I've generally had good luck with import ER collets, but even there I have a few that have runout noticeable to the naked eye. An import drill chuck and/or import arbor whose tapers don't match each other OR known-good parts. $2 each endmills that have built in runout, or whose tips are noticeably blunted after only a few minutes' use.

        Yeah, I know I'm sounding like the classic grumpy old fart (I'm only two of the three so far ) but really, hard won experience, over and over, has shown that cheap tooling, especially in this biz, almost always winds up costing more than if you'd had just bought the good stuff to start with.

        Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)


        • #19
          [QUOTE=dian;n1969915]there was some talk a while ago about face mills being expensive so i thought i would share this.""

          Thats what I thought I read? You are sharing, Id like the 1.1/2" please. And share some inserts too please. Thanks, JR ") ")


          • #20
            I wouldn't have bought the aluminum one. I have seen hardened steel bodied facemills wear in the areas where chips erode the surface. And yeah I'd expect the inserts not to work anywhere near as well as the good stuff, but worth a try I suppose. I was pleasantly surprised by the Korloy brand, those are pretty good in my experience.


            • #21
              thats why i bought it, to see how it erodes. i probably wont, its for a fehlmann picomax mill/drill and therefore for light cuts. and even if it did i wouldnt mind for the price of an ice cream. there are huge, like 300 mm, aluminum face mils being used by automotive shops, btw.

              the polished aluminum inserts are seht 1204, the others are apmt 1604 and 1135.

              they are probably made in the same factories as the "brand name" inserts for 10x the price. at least thats my take on this.

              willy, i only have sehts for aluminum for these tools, so cant compare to the apmt on steel. eventually im going to try the ceramic ones on aly at some insane speed just for the hell of it. and yes, its thread inserts you see. however on a bigger mill i use sehts frequently with good results. i have long ago stopped worying about height and runout on a facemill. i have one with adjustable pockets and i even used to shim the inserts. but in the end the finish depends on the combination of other factors like speed, feed, vibrations, cutting fluid and material.
              Last edited by dian; 11-20-2021, 04:04 AM.


              • #22
                I think for the price, it was a good haul. Have fun and let us know how things hold up. A lot of opinion from people that
                are just speculating. I mean, educated and probably right speculation, but you already bought them so have at it.
                John Titor, when are you.


                • #23
                  I have a banggood special which is very similar. Mine came with an R8 arbor, which has a taper that is more acute than the R8 spec. I still use it and beat on it because it was like $32 shipped from CN with some TiN coated inserts that seem to take extreme abuse.

                  I bought a Glacern facemill with R8 arbor for doing aluminum stuff. It uses the square inserts which i forget the part number. It is considerably better balanced and rips at mac speed on my machine.

                  I don't think an aluminum one is useful at all. If you were cutting something very soft like plastic maybe, but it's going to get hot and grow axially under sustained cuts, so you'll be chasing Z offsets if you're making a bunch of passes.


                  • #24
                    I think you're all worrying a wee bit too much about cheap alu face mills. In a production environment, when you have a 10-20hp spindle pushing it all day everyday, face mill body material will probably be an issue. But if you're in that environment you won't be shopping on aliexpress or banggood for face mills. In a job shop or hobby shop, with 1-2hp mills and it getting used every so often, it'll most likely last forever.

                    I've beat the monkeys out of mine in steel with ground for alu inserts (mostly making about 40 QCTP holders of different sizes) and the body looks just the same as when I bought it. It's not super great, though part of that is probably down to the home made arbor, but it leaves a beautiful finish and cost me very little. Same goes for the inserts.