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Wonderful wago lever action electrical connecters

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  • #31
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    How many fails does it take to NOT want them in your house while you are asleep?
    Yes, he's touting "thousands" Well to the best of my knowledge my bro's company was responsible for many millions of connections over the decades without one failure,

    the beauty of the wire nut is they are dead simple --- and even with that they do have manufacturing defects --- I have personally seen a few get past the production line without the coil insert, and even if an electrician missed that they would immediately know what the score was when they went to tighten one down, it would not "grab" at all - then they would pull it off and go WTF? and look inside and pitch it...

    The wago lever actions are not immune to defects, in fact they are actually more prone to it due to being more complicated and actually a "mechanical device"

    and due to being "concealed" the defects will not be seen or realized --- they will just be counted on as "good" that's bad practice to begin with --- and most likely one of the reasons they are not allowed in commercial applications... in the wiring game you have to play the odds of percentages strategy... if you don't you will soon be sorry or somebody else might be really sorry and pay with their life...

    for oversea's double the voltage half the amps --- well that's another topic - but for the good old robust USA ? they should be banned...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
      Threads like these always catch my interest, mostly cause its fun hearing the opinions. Everybody seems to be championing screw-on wire nuts (and they work, i use them too), but theres a bit of irony in the fact that wire nuts are generally not used in european countries because theyre seens as less safe, with screw terminals or lever locks being the go-tos

      Personally i see it as a similar thing to PEX vs copper tube. Yeah, the early generation mightve had some faults, but theyve been massively overblown in the years since, even though the faults have been worked out, to the point where the replacement is arguably better. Price factors in to it to, for the PEX example ive seen a lot of plumbers talk down PEX just because copper takes more skill to install and thus makes them more money
      I don't know your experience in the building trades but early polybutylene pipe for home, mobile home and RV's was a disaster costing millions of dollars in damage, retrofitting and lawsuits so coming from the building trades it was a colossal engineering failure that bankrupted many companies. You know in some cases the tried and true just might work the best forever. Having installed thousands of wire nuts I might have come across one or two without the internal metal screw and instantly realize there is a problem and from my knowledge I have never heard of a wire nut failure in service. There is always some 'new idea' guy trying to upsell the industry with a newfangled gadget, history of man I suppose, maybe good or maybe bad, time will tell.

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      • #33
        Fake Wago(s) are an even bigger problem than any inherent design issues.

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        • #34
          I am not a licensed electrician, but I have connected tens of thousands of wires (cables) over the years. And I can understand how these connectors can fail. Both types, with and without the levers, use an edge of a spring like piece of metal to engage the wire. The first problem here is that there is a very small, single area of contact. This contact area may be OK to carry the current at first, but things can happen.

          I am sure that they do not use the best alloy for this spring like contact. And the connectors are rated for a range of wire sizes, not just one. The larger permitted wire sizes will compress that spring more and it can be bent beyond it's elastic limit. So it may not come back to the original position is the wire is removed from the lever types. If a smaller gauge wire is then inserted, it will have a smaller initial contact area.

          But there is more. There is nothing to prevent the rotation that was seen in the video. In the video the connector was rotated many times, but that was only to illustrate just how easily it will rotate. In making an actual connection and then stuffing the wires and connectors into the box the connectors will probably not be rotated even a single complete rotation. BUT, there will be some back and forth rotation about the initial angle that the wire was inserted at. Copper is SOFT. So this back and forth rotation, even if it is only for a few degrees, will cause the notch in the copper to widen and deepen. Just a little bit of this can cause that small point of contact to become even smaller as the copper is formed away from the spring contact.

          So, cutting into the wire IS normal with these types of connectors. But normally it does not extend all the way around the wire: it is only at one small place. But that is enough for them to fail.

          If the installer is extra cautious or just happens to have a better technique, this back and forth rotation may be eliminated or minimized. And there are no problems. But if there is a more normal amount of the back and forth rotation, and this can be just a few cycles, then the connection is going to be degraded. How much? It is hard to tell.

          The wire nuts do not allow this back and forth rotation. They are applied quite tight with a much larger area of the spiral spring digging into the copper. And when the wires are twisted as they lead up to the wire nut, they effectively brace each other from any movement inside the wire nut.

          Wire nuts cost less and work better. That is a fact. For me they probably take a significantly longer amount of time to install. But a professional electrician will work a lot faster than I do and the time differential will be minimal.

          I like to use a pair of lineman's pliers (Kleins of course) to twist the stripped portion of the wires tight before applying the wire nut. If needed, I cut that twisted area off even with the Kleins. Then I twist the wire nut on and continue twisting until the wires start to twist together for the inch or so just outside of the wire nut.



          Originally posted by Edwin Dirnbeck View Post

          I watched the guy on you tube. I dont think that he was using wago brand. The wago connecters that I have are clear so that you can actually see the wire being clamped after you flip the lever. The guy puts ONE WIRE into ONE OF THE PORTS and spins the wago and shows how it cuts into the wire.This would not normally happen The main point of the you tube video seems to be DONT USE THE STAB IN CONECTERS. I agree ,I have had bad experience with stab in outlets. Edwin Dirnbeck
          Paul A.
          SE Texas

          And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
          You will find that it has discrete steps.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

            How many fails does it take to NOT want them in your house while you are asleep?
            Confirmation bias in new tech failures is the classic argument against progress. "How can you use those newfangled automobiles, you might get a flat or run out of gas. That NEVER happens to old Dobby here". Old Dobby might throw a shoe, or throw his rider, but that's the devil you know.

            I've read a number of threads like this on the electricians forum MikeHolt.com. and concluded these are safe.
            Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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            • #36
              I have some of those wago connectors. I like them for building stuff, but prefer traditional wire nuts inside my walls. They're handy for making quick connections of components that require frequent disassembly while prototyping. I wish they had a flange on the body of them to be able to screw them to a case, or board for mounting.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by gellfex View Post

                Confirmation bias in new tech failures is the classic argument against progress. "How can you use those newfangled automobiles, you might get a flat or run out of gas. That NEVER happens to old Dobby here". Old Dobby might throw a shoe, or throw his rider, but that's the devil you know.

                I've read a number of threads like this on the electricians forum MikeHolt.com. and concluded these are safe.
                See post #24

                I trust the guys in the field...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                  See post #24

                  I trust the guys in the field...
                  If that were a common occurrence they would be off the market in an instant. I must believe there was some kind of human error.
                  Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Dan Dubeau View Post
                    I have some of those wago connectors. They're handy for making quick connections of components that require frequent disassembly while prototyping. I wish they had a flange on the body of them to be able to screw them to a case, or board for mounting.
                    I have never used them but that looked like a perfect use when I saw them in a vid. No flange? I didnt notice. How do you firmly attach them? Or do you not? I could see them as a great breadboard type deal, if there were mounting flanges. JR

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JRouche View Post

                      I have never used them but that looked like a perfect use when I saw them in a vid. No flange? I didnt notice. How do you firmly attach them? Or do you not? I could see them as a great breadboard type deal, if there were mounting flanges. JR
                      The ones I have don't have a flange (I don't know if they make any that do?). I've just left them flopping in the breeze, but I suppose you could hotglue/epoxy them down if you really wanted. If they came with a flange they'd be the cat ass for that application. I have some other styles of spring loaded connectors, that DO have a flange to secure them, but they're not as solid as the wago's in the wire connection dept, which IMO is the most important. And I do believe mine are knock off versions purchased off banggood a few years ago.

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                      • #41
                        I'll start by admitting that a wire nut is likely a better electrical contact and cheaper.
                        There is a place for these though; before these all house installations used a spring loaded in-but-never-out connector. Each time you changed something in your setup you would have to cut back the wire, and there is already very little of the solid core 2.5mm2 in the connection box inside the wall. This one makes changes a breeze without cutting back the wires to the point you need to run new wires through the wall again.
                        They are also excellent for prototyping high current hardware.

                        And then I'm going to state it's more than likely properly engineered, even though armchair engineers will spin all kind of stories. Wago is a German family owned company supplying probably half the industry DIN rail terminal hardware in Europe. They are the standard and you can tell by all the chinese counterfeits of their hardware showing up.
                        Note that these connectors are UL486C compliant but at a lower current rating. For instance the 4mm2 size is rated for 32A but only 20A under UL.

                        Nobody here is going to be convinced to use something new if they've used something else, but there is no point in claiming that the product is not fit for purpose. The parts have specifications and will function perfectly within them. If you decide to use them for much higher currents and they do melt, that says more about the installer than the product.

                        They also have a white version for ATEX zone 1 and 2, but I guess in the US everyone just uses wire nuts in their oil and gas infrastructure :-)
                        Last edited by ikdor; 11-24-2021, 02:24 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JRouche View Post

                          I have never used them but that looked like a perfect use when I saw them in a vid. No flange? I didnt notice. How do you firmly attach them? Or do you not? I could see them as a great breadboard type deal, if there were mounting flanges. JR
                          There's terminal bars made for that, this product is made for electrical boxes.
                          Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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                          • #43
                            By the way, there is also another style 221 which you can screw down using an extra bracket, this one is better for prototyping. And yes it's more expensive than just twisting wires together like some have done for decades without burning a house down.
                             

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                            • #44
                              I stick mine in wago boxes, they have a screw fix, it’s unwise to allow wire connections loose in walls imho it’s actually illegal in many cases, and they sure beat chocolate block screw connections
                              mark

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by boslab View Post
                                I stick mine in wago boxes, they have a screw fix, it’s unwise to allow wire connections loose in walls imho it’s actually illegal in many cases, and they sure beat chocolate block screw connections
                                mark
                                Correct by NEC and common sense all wire connections are in boxes and accessible.
                                Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician - Fine Line Automation CNC 4x4 Router

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