Indexible Boring Bar Advice Needed

[chipmaker4130]

In general, if a company is unwilling to put their name on a product (on the tools themselves, not the box), it isn't a good investment.

[Bented]

Thanks for the detail, that's what I need.

You are welcome.
Personally I dislike TP inserts and only use them when there is no other choice, the first choice is CNMG, if that does not work I try DCMT and if this fails then TPG as a last resort.

TPG will almost always work however they are not good for roughing.

Depending on the bronze alloy and its condition, number of parts and amount of metal removal a TPG insert is slow but will do most jobs, they are also inexpensive and user friendly

I do these 932 bronze bearings fairly often, 3/4" comes out of the bore.

[Spindle]

Im not exactly sure what you are doing or how many you have but maybe a reamer would be a better solution for this job?

This is specifically for a 1941 Harley Davidson 3 speed transmission 2nd gear bushing. I bought a reproduction 2nd gear that included a bushing but it was .012 oversize right out of the box. Then bought a pair of replacement bushings (with spiral oil groove) which undersized when pressed in. Reamed the first to correct size but the surface was shredded. Bored the second one but went oversize.
Then started cutting new blanks from cored bronze. I tried reaming 3 times with specified hole size for the reamer, once in the lathe, twice in the mill. Size was dead on at .9375, but surface was shredded. Slow speed & feed with oil flood. 3 unsuccessful reamings, 3 unsuccessful borings. Had to turn it over to local shop just to get the project moving forward while I try to get set up to do this myself since I'm not going to install a compromised part. I don't have floating reamer holders and it's a Grizzly reamer...

[Spindle]

For that sort of money I think you're looking at fairly low end options. I'm thinking that properly heat treated options are going to cost a fair bit more than that. But I'd be interested in what anyone else that owns a set has to say too. If they are properly heat treated and decently made then that's a great price.

Something to try for doing bronze would be to use a regular HSS 1/2" end mill. Try it as per normal.. Then since it's bronze try putting a small neutral or slightly negative edge as per the diagram for drill bits. For the bronze this might give you a nice clean cut. And it's the perfect place to re-purpose dull end mills if you're like me and have no way to sharpen them. It only requires that one tooth be sharp. And it's easy enough to grind them back a fair ways to get up where the side edge is keen as well.

I doubt there's much heat treating for that price, but I may try the end mill method. If I have one in 5/8.

[wierdscience]

I've got a set of insert bars from Borite for my BP#2 boring head, no complaints so far.

https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/boinbobar6pi.html

[Spindle]

That's exactly what I'm looking for, a positive reference and made in USA according to the Ajax site.
This is one of the best forums for helping those of us with more enthusiasm than experience.
Thank you all for your time and patience.

[JRouche]

Just received a like new Bridgeport #2 boring head w/accessories in original box and would like a recommendation for a good indexable boring bar set. You guys probably know those that work well and those to be avoided.

Bronze bushes, McMaster-Carr.


Index-able boring bar has a dial on it. You mean that kind? Goy one right here.

Kidding. A regular bar will suffice, lemme say JR

[Spindle]

I did see some bars with dials, what do they do?

I wasn't interested in getting into inserts until the shop I took this job to said they use insert tooling almost exclusively and that got me curious. Then I discovered how complex it is and came here for a bit of advice and wasn't disappointed.

[BCRider]

I've dabbled on and off with both brazed and insert carbide and found that I keep using it wrong and edges crumble. So I've got mixed feelings about it. But to be fair since I'm a hobby only sort I don't pay the big bucks for the better brand names.

Years ago I bought a cheap set of indexable lathe tools that use the TCMT inserts. The inserts that came with the tools were terrible. They'd crumble the tips just looking at them sideways. The tools sat in the cutter drawer for about 15 years during which I'd try it now and then on a tough job to see if they were right for that work. They never were.

Recently I risked a $20 bill on a pack of 10 TCMT inserts. And I gotta say that so far these are working out not too badly. They still crumble when I tried to use them on the mystery steel that loves to work harden when cut too fast. But used at more like HSS speeds it's working OK on the tough mystery steel and doing nicely at a higher speed on the regular mild steel. So I'm feeling more kindly to them at this point. But I'm still more a fan of HSS than carbide.

Frankly for the bronze bushings I think your better bet is still a piece of HSS ground with a neutral top rake and given a honed finish with a nice smooth nose radius to get the nicest cut. This is a classic option for bronze and brass and has never let me down.

[Spindle]

BCRider,

Thanks for the advice confirming my preference to stay with HSS which I'm already comfortable with. I intend to get a white 120 wheel and 220 and 600 bench stones to improve my HSS tooling. If those grits are wrong let me know. Can you post a picture of one of your endmills converted to boring tool?

[Bented]

I did see some bars with dials, what do they do?

Boring head for small holes like so.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254376510932?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=254376510932&targetid=1262749490862&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9003784&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1262749490862&abcId=9300678&merchantid=119011253&gclid=CjwKCAiAqIKNBhAIEiwAu_ZLDkTzSI7A62oSqqCz2yuVQIUw69JrBOGpziwO8vntW8jQ-iiC9n8AkxoCI2UQAvD_BwE

I am not suggesting that you buy such a tool, this is merely the first picture that appeared during a web search that answers your question.

[BCRider]

BCRider,

Thanks for the advice confirming my preference to stay with HSS which I'm already comfortable with. I intend to get a white 120 wheel and 220 and 600 bench stones to improve my HSS tooling. If those grits are wrong let me know. Can you post a picture of one of your endmills converted to boring tool?

I'm still working on the idea but here's what I've done so far.



The two bars in the shop made bar holder on the right are a 1/4" end mill in a 5/8" holder and a 1/2" end mill in a 1" holder. The other end of the 1" bar is also set up similarly with the nose taper and set screws to hold a 3/8" end mill.

These are the proof of concept bars i did originally about 7 years ago and which have done fine for boring where the depth of the bore does not exceed the reach of the end mill. Perhaps due to the high top rake provided by the helix shape these cut super clean and without any screeching sounds indicating chatter.

Because these two are totally axial I generally angle the cutting tip towards me by just a visual whisker. Although the geometry of the helix SHOULD be fine if they were dead on the axis of the spindle. The slight angle towards myself is just to avoid getting it wrong.

A while back I did the bar on the left to offset the end mill so I could use it for deeper cuts. But I didn't think it through very well. It was one of those jobs that suddenly gets launched when one gets tired of cleaning up and finds a piece of metal just after putting away the boring bars and just wants to make some chips.

The hole is angled so the tip cuts and the mill scale on the holding bar "just" misses the side of the bore by about .01. But of course I didn't allow for repeated sharpening of the end mill and eventually the support bar would rub. But it's the style I want to use for the next "proper" design that uses an endmill as the cutting insert.

For smoothness of cuts these end mill boring bars work a lot better than the brazed carbide bars or the other home made bars with small pieces of HSS ground to look like lathe tools. The generous top rake provided by the helix seems to shear the metal with much less risk of chatter or "singing". These are currently my "go to" tools provided the depth of the bore is suitable for their use. So much so that I felt pretty safe when I suggested using a worn or chipped 1/2" or 5/8" end mill (which ever fits the boring head) for boring the bushings or other boring jobs in a mill.

For the odd time I run into metal that is harder or that is super abrasive on the edges I'd like to have a carbide option though. The brazed carbide bar set fills this role currently but they are hellishly prone to "singing" at a high pitched chatter unless almost ridiculously light cuts are used. So I'm following this thread with interest.

I hope this side track post away from carbide insert bars is helpful.

[BCRider]

Oh, the grinding wheels. I think you'll find that 120 is pretty fine. Wheel grits cut a lot more smoothly than sandpaper grits. I bought a 120 originally to use for my wood working chisels. But for grinding wheels 120 is almost super fine. So I found that for touch ups to edges it's fine. But for actual hogging new shapes out of tool blanks it's slow and the pressure seems to polish the working face and I have to freshen it with one of the diamond bars frequently. I wish I'd gotten an 80 grit instead if I were to have only one wheel. For a two wheel setup I'd go 60 for rough hogging and a 100 or 120 for the touchups to edges on existing tools.

For stoning the edges on HSS tools for the ones used for the fine cuts or for the shear cut tool I did for my shaper I use a fine india stone. I've no idea what the equivalent grit number would be. But the fine india is still pretty coarse compared to the "hard arkansa" stones or the white ceramic Lansky stones I use for finer work. For lathe and shaper work I found that the fine india was dandy. The mirror like edges from a few more licks with the white ceramic didn't make the edge cut any smoother or last any longer but took about 4 times as long to make it look good.

Again, hope that helps.

[oxford]

I have used an endmill for a boring bar in the lathe like pictured above.

Instead of a holder I just put the endmill directly clamped in the quick change tool holder and “index” it so one flute is cutting. I then just clock the tool post slightly give the endmill some side clearance so it doesn’t rub.

[BCRider]

Oxford, if I'd had a QCTP at the time that's what I'd have done too. It really is the easy and obvious option.

But the boring bar holder and how I held all my boring bars from that point on since it was automatically at the proper center height (made directly in the lathe BTW) was born back when I was still putzing around with the 4 way tool post. Things sure are a LOT easier now that I finally broke down a year or so back and bought a QCTP.