Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Vibratory Polishing

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    What about a base shaker and a frequency generator?

    Sid

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Willy View Post
      Interesting project Joe, here's a little bit of info that may help, I hope.

      Lots of info on this page to give one a general idea regarding media types and their uses.

      https://shinysmooth.com/mass-finishing/

      As far as the fundamentals of how to get that thing a'shakin I would assume it would be basically the same as a brass vibrator/polisher, an eccentric weight on the shaft of a motor secured to the bowl which is allowed to oscillate since it would be mounted on springs. The fine tuning would of course revolve largely on the weight of the eccentric and springs calibration. Lots of other factors to consider as well, chiefly the size and and all-up weight of the bowl. Among other things of course would be HP required.

      I have in the past seen some though roughly the size you are contemplating that used a 1 HP motor.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Schematic-of-vibratory-finisher.png
Views:	469
Size:	95.0 KB
ID:	1972383

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2021-11-28 at 19-56-48 web030101c gif;width=860;format=webp webp (WEBP Image, 400 × 319 pixels).jpg
Views:	382
Size:	43.5 KB
ID:	1972384
      Thanks Willy, that's a good diagram. I'm going to keep it for future reference. It would still take some trial and error with the springs depending on the weight of a 1/4 55 gal. drum 3/4 full of ceramic media. I wonder how the weight would effect the life of the motor bearings ?

      My vibrator for polishing brass works off a coil and the steel base part that the plastic tub is mounted to. There's a knob under the base that adjusts the distance between the steel base and the coil thus adjusting the level of vibration. Sort of like an aquarium air pump. So no motor or moving parts.

      JL..............

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by sid pileski View Post
        What about a base shaker and a frequency generator?

        Sid
        Sid, not sure what you mean with the freq. generator.

        JL............

        Comment


        • #19
          I haven't seen them all Joe, and I'm sure there are others but all of the vibratory finishers (much better results using that term) that I've seen used an electric motor with an eccentric weight.
          More or less following a variation of this theme.

          https://solutionsinmotion.clevelandv...ric-vibrators/


          Click image for larger version

Name:	How-to-adjust-the-eccentric-weight-on-rotary-electric-vibrators-1.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	83.1 KB
ID:	1972455

          The 3.3 cu. ft. model below uses what appears to be a standard 1 HP single ph. motor, probably belt drive to the eccentric weight vibratory system.

          https://kalamazooind.com/product/kvf...tory-finisher/


          Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
          Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

          Location: British Columbia

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Willy View Post
            I haven't seen them all Joe, and I'm sure there are others but all of the vibratory finishers (much better results using that term) that I've seen used an electric motor with an eccentric weight.
            More or less following a variation of this theme.

            https://solutionsinmotion.clevelandv...ric-vibrators/


            Click image for larger version

Name:	How-to-adjust-the-eccentric-weight-on-rotary-electric-vibrators-1.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	83.1 KB
ID:	1972455

            The 3.3 cu. ft. model below uses what appears to be a standard 1 HP single ph. motor, probably belt drive to the eccentric weight vibratory system.

            https://kalamazooind.com/product/kvf...tory-finisher/

            The first link was an interesting read. You have to request the price. Judging by the way it's made (looking at the pictures) it looks to be a quality piece of equipment . I doubt it's cheap.
            The Kalamazoo was over $5k. But the information gives me the detail I need to make one. Motors are cheap. I have a few laying around the shop. Only problem is none of them have a shaft one both ends.

            JL..................

            Comment


            • #21
              Hey Joe. I like it. It sounds like its large? Yeah, I have no space. Problem living here in this wrenched State. .

              Id love to run with some of you folks that have a ranch or farm Machine Shop!! Yes. I grew up on a pig farm in the Carolinas. Not kidding. JR

              Ooops, I should have said there were only about 20 pigs. Carolina. The land where we were was up and down. Cliffs, not hills. Small heard, JR
              Last edited by JRouche; 12-06-2021, 03:43 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by JRouche View Post
                Hey Joe. I like it. It sounds like its large? Yeah, I have no space. Problem living here in this wrenched State. .

                Id love to run with some of you folks that have a ranch or farm Machine Shop!! Yes. I grew up on a pig farm in the Carolinas. Not kidding. JR

                Ooops, I should have said there were only about 20 pigs. Carolina. The land where we were was up and down. Cliffs, not hills. Small heard, JR
                I don't know if you would call it large. It's bigger than the 2 qt. one for polishing brass cartridges and uses crushed walnut shells for media. The one I'm designing will use some type (to be determined) ceramic media.
                The PVC barrels are about 24" in dia. I'll cut it so I'll have about 18" of depth. These barrels are about 1/4" in thickness so it should be pretty sturdy.
                Will have to make a stand with some soft rubber pads on the bottom so it doesn't dance across the shop floor. This is another project in the works.
                And yeah........... shop space is an issue for most all of us. Especially for something that will seldom be used.

                JL......................

                Comment


                • #23
                  This vibrator uses an eccentric attached to a motor which is attached to the bowl. Straightforward.
                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Schematic-of-vibratory-finisher.png
Views:	469
Size:	95.0 KB
ID:	1972383

                  But the vibration forces are transmitted through the motor bearing - maybe not so good for a motor that you happen to laying around. Better would be to have a bearing on the bottom of the bowl that the motor shaft fits in. The forces are transmitted through this bearing & the motor bearing only takes the forces to vibrate the motor itself, which could float if constrained rotationally.
                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Vibe.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	16.2 KB
ID:	1973426

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post
                    This vibrator uses an eccentric attached to a motor which is attached to the bowl. Straightforward.
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	Schematic-of-vibratory-finisher.png Views:	263 Size:	95.0 KB ID:	1972383

                    But the vibration forces are transmitted through the motor bearing - maybe not so good for a motor that you happen to laying around. Better would be to have a bearing on the bottom of the bowl that the motor shaft fits in. The forces are transmitted through this bearing & the motor bearing only takes the forces to vibrate the motor itself, which could float if constrained rotationally.
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	Vibe.jpg Views:	11 Size:	16.2 KB ID:	1973426
                    Bob,I don't quite get it. The eccentric weight is still on the shaft of the motor shaft. The shaft is still going to absorb the brunt of the out of balance situation. A better way to completely isolate the motor would be to make like a jack shaft set up with the counter weight mounted on that shaft.and a belt drive could be used between the motor and the jack shaft. The motor could be mounted on the stand rather than the vibrating tub.

                    JL..............
                    Last edited by JoeLee; 12-06-2021, 10:29 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                      Bob,I don't quite get it. The eccentric weight is still on the shaft of the motor shaft. The shaft is still going to absorb the brunt of the out of balance situation. A better way to completely isolate the motor would be to make like a jack shaft set up with the counter weight mounted on that shaft.and a belt drive could be used between the motor and the jack shaft. The motor could be mounted on the stand rather than the vibrating tub.
                      JL..............
                      "The Kalamazoo was over $5k. But the information gives me the detail I need to make one. Motors are cheap. I have a few laying around the shop. Only problem is none of them have a shaft one both ends."

                      You (inclusive) are overthinking this. Most modern motors would have ball bearings on both ends of their shafts and the vibration would not cause them to fail for a long time and if they did, motors are cheap and plentiful. Make it with the motor he has on hand, run it until the motor fails. If he is still alive and wanting to use this vibratory tumbler, fit another motor.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I just bought one of the cheap import tumblers as I've always wanted to try one, and now have a product I'm making that needs one. If it works good for what I need it for I'll probably build a bigger one built around a big hdpe drum. I remember seeing a build many years ago and the guy used a 1" shaft mounted with some pillow block bearings on the bottom of the drum that was laying down with the top (side) sliced off, that had some eccentrics on it. The whole drum was suspended from a frame, and the shaft was belt driven from the bottom with an electric motor. I've always had that layout in mind to build one as I think it would be a pretty easy build, and has some good design points built in. Things like isolating the motor itself from the vibrations, and the size format of being able to tumble long objects are a big plus for me. I wish I could find where it was posted, or even a picture of it, but I only remember the build in my head. I'm sure you might have to play with the weights to tune it for the vibration characteristics you need. With the shaft out in the open on the bottom like that, that task would be very easy.

                        I can't remember if it was suspended from rope or rubber, but some kind of rubber would probably be best. I'll do some searching around and will try and find it again, but it had to be over 10-15 years ago now. I can't remember birthdays or passwords other important things, but these are the memories that clog my brain lol.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dan Dubeau View Post
                          I just bought one of the cheap import tumblers as I've always wanted to try one, and now have a product I'm making that needs one. If it works good for what I need it for I'll probably build a bigger one built around a big hdpe drum. I remember seeing a build many years ago and the guy used a 1" shaft mounted with some pillow block bearings on the bottom of the drum that was laying down with the top (side) sliced off, that had some eccentrics on it. The whole drum was suspended from a frame, and the shaft was belt driven from the bottom with an electric motor. I've always had that layout in mind to build one as I think it would be a pretty easy build, and has some good design points built in. Things like isolating the motor itself from the vibrations, and the size format of being able to tumble long objects are a big plus for me. I wish I could find where it was posted, or even a picture of it, but I only remember the build in my head. I'm sure you might have to play with the weights to tune it for the vibration characteristics you need. With the shaft out in the open on the bottom like that, that task would be very easy.

                          I can't remember if it was suspended from rope or rubber, but some kind of rubber would probably be best. I'll do some searching around and will try and find it again, but it had to be over 10-15 years ago now. I can't remember birthdays or passwords other important things, but these are the memories that clog my brain lol.
                          Tumbling is OK for small things but larger heavy parts can end up with a lot of dings and scars. Vibrating is much gentler.
                          Having the motor mounted off the vibrating drum was my original idea. Some sort of pillow block or jack shaft set up to mount the eccentrics on coupled to the motor with a belt seems like a good idea.
                          Suspending the tub is a good thought but how would you keep it tensioned to the belt ?

                          Phillystran is a good choice for suspending the tub if you wanted to go that route.

                          JL..........

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                            Tumbling is OK for small things but larger heavy parts can end up with a lot of dings and scars. Vibrating is much gentler.
                            Having the motor mounted off the vibrating drum was my original idea. Some sort of pillow block or jack shaft set up to mount the eccentrics on coupled to the motor with a belt seems like a good idea.
                            Suspending the tub is a good thought but how would you keep it tensioned to the belt ?

                            Phillystran is a good choice for suspending the tub if you wanted to go that route.

                            JL..........
                            Sorry, I wrote tumblers but meant vibrating drum, not a rotating one. Seems I've used the terms interchangeably where I shouldn't have. Side note, what is the correct verbiage? Seems I've always thought of them as vibratory tumblers, but never really thought that was incorrect? Is it still correct to call them "tumblers" (vibrating or rotating) even though they don't rotate like the rock tumbler style? Searching the internet makes me think the term is used interchangeably, but that doesn't mean it's right.......

                            I think it you had the motor on a hinged pivot like a pretty standard tensioning method as found on a table saw etc... it would provide enough tension even though the tub above is suspended and free to move. I realize I'm trying to describe something that is perfectly clear in my head, but might not be with my words. So here's a quick sketch to try and explain it better


                            The motor is on a hinged plate mounted on the frame, and the shaft with eccentric is mounted to the drum longitudinally. the drum is suspended from the frame with springs or rubber etc...
                            Last edited by Dan Dubeau; 12-07-2021, 11:45 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Dan, I've always that tumbling and vibrating as two completely different methods of polishing. I've seen tumblers before, large drums that rotate on rollers. Remember the rock polishers you could buy as a kid?? That method is still used but vibrating I believe is faster and less damaging to parts.

                              JL.................

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X