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Wanna see what's inside a POS Milwaukee drill chuck?

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  • #76
    Im a little perturbed with my new DeWalt impact tool, it does have variable speed on the trigger, but that's it --- that's how you regulate it's power, now with a drill you can feel the torque against your wrist and get close - and with both you can look at things like deck screws and see the head depth till it goes flush and quit,

    but the impact tool is also used for fasteners and such --- not that I am really going to go that route on automotive stuff and that's mostly what i'll be using it for but not to final tighten - maybe loosen and draw stuff up and then hand torque anyways --- I think impact tools ruin my zen, I like to slow things down - i catch mistakes that way, even in taking things apart - it keeps me in check on how they came apart so I can properly put things back together --- I can see how the tool would be a great benefit for building decks and stuff esp. for hex lags, But your only way of duplicating your last install torque is with the variable finger trigger, who know's the exact positioning of that when you get into reloading a new fastener and driving it in with a big washer and perhaps a nut on the other side?

    My bro's says his Milwaukee impact has 3 power settings - i like that,

    All's it would have taken is for Dewalt to put one of those little thumb wheel limiters on the variable speed finger trigger - just something to repeat/regulate,,, I don't see those things anymore - they used to be quite popular on VS drills back in the day... simple device and probably only adds 20 cents to the production cost...

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    • #77
      It's a new way of doing business, new tools require experience with them in order to gain familiarity and confidence. Driving in a deck screw takes less intuitive feedback than when using the tool with nuts and bolts as an example.I agree a repeatable and variable power level would make the transition easy in order to gain confidence fast, however time spent with the tool will soon give the feedback required.

      My M18 impact for instance has a bolt removal function that gives full power and speed in reverse, then senses when the fastener is lose and slows down the rpm level so that the bolt doesn't supposedly go flying across the shop.
      I hate that feature and never use it.
      After having used air impacts for decades at full power and speed I find that "feature" amounts to two steps backward.GRR! Such an inane function and so slow.
      And really it only takes a small bit of experience in order to feel comfortable with that bolt or nut removal scenario at full speed in order to feel comfortable with it.
      This feature was obviously incorporated by someone that had never used an impact, well maybe for just that one nut and that must have scared the daylights out of him.

      Give it an hour and you'll feel comfy with it's capabilities.
      Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
      Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

      Location: British Columbia

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      • #78
        Willy, this is off topic but I've been going to say it for a long, long time: You are an incredibly knowledgeable and articulate individual, always the gentleman, always willing to help. Thank you.
        Southwest Utah

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        • #79
          Originally posted by chipmaker4130 View Post
          Willy, this is off topic but I've been going to say it for a long, long time: You are an incredibly knowledgeable and articulate individual, always the gentleman, always willing to help. Thank you.
          X 2, in fact for as much ground as the guy covers id also put him as our most reliable no BS source...

          Willy doesn't talk just to hear his own voice...
          Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 12-06-2021, 01:22 PM.

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          • #80
            Just read on the Bosch Bluetooth capabilities. You can set the kickback reaction force level or disconnect it and among other things, set the torque control to how many clicks the clutch gives before motor switch off.
            Helder Ferreira
            Setubal, Portugal

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            • #81
              And it costs 10% of the machine
              Helder Ferreira
              Setubal, Portugal

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              • #82
                Originally posted by chipmaker4130 View Post
                Willy, this is off topic but I've been going to say it for a long, long time: You are an incredibly knowledgeable and articulate individual, always the gentleman, always willing to help. Thank you.
                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                X 2, in fact for as much ground as the guy covers id also put him as our most reliable no BS source...

                Willy doesn't talk just to hear his own voice...
                Gentlemen I am both honored and humbled by both of your comments.
                Thank you for your kind words!

                Last edited by Willy; 12-07-2021, 12:32 AM.
                Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                Location: British Columbia

                Comment


                • #83
                  Thanks for that link.



                  Originally posted by Willy View Post

                  Mike here's another video showing a Dewalt and a Milwaukee with the click back lock feature, I meant to include it previously, however it is here now.



                  I think it is important to remember that not all chucks feature this option, for example the Rohm chuck that MattiJ referenced to back in post #29 has a self tightening feature that self tightens the chuck proportional to cutting force assuring that drills don't slip. Rohm's catalogue has some good cutaway illustrations showing the internals of their various chucks for those that care to have a look.

                  https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...zF7Tv9bhnGsah_
                  Paul A.
                  SE Texas

                  And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                  You will find that it has discrete steps.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Now, wait, wait, Wait, WAIT, WAIT A MINUTE!

                    Perhaps I am wrong, but I always thought it was the CLUTCH, which is built into the DRILL ITSELF that clicked or ratcheted. Not the drill chuck. I will grant that they are close together, but can't the chuck be removed while the clutch, and therefore the clicker or ratchet remains in the drill?

                    It is only one manufacturer, but I just finished looking through that Rohm brochure, page by page, and did not see any kind of clutch or device that would click in any of the chucks shown there.

                    Or does this idea only apply to chucks intended for high end, industrial use as on drill presses, milling machines, CNC centers, etc.? Do those high end (expensive) chucks have clutches or some kind of mechanism that clicks as part of the chuck itself? I can't answer that question in my economy shop. My best chuck is a key style Rohm.

                    But no argument on the "lawyers" bit. Good luck on getting anyone to remove a battery before changing tools. That could even be more dangerous than anything that the drill might do to you; just imagine doing that at the top of a tall ladder or on a steep roof. NO THANKS! I would bet that a slick lawyer could make that argument stick in a lawsuit. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was following the manufacturer's instructions when he lost his balance trying to hold the drill, the battery, and insert and tighten a drill bit. After falling 47 feet to the ground, he is paralyzed for life. We demand X million dollars."

                    I saw something else that I think I like in that Rohm brochure: carbide inserts on the jaws of some of the chucks. Any comment on that? Good? Bad? OK, but not worth any extra price?



                    Originally posted by Willy View Post

                    Like I said, manuals written by lawyers!
                    If it ratchets when tightening it's a locking chuck.

                    If it hadn't of been in the manual for my Bosch's Rohm chuck I wouldn't have know either. This gross oversight is likely the reason so many are unaware of this since neither your Milwaukee or AK's DeWalt manual mentions this.
                    Good grief, what a sad state of affairs, more concerned about removing the battery than proper use of the tool!
                    Paul A.
                    SE Texas

                    And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                    You will find that it has discrete steps.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      The clutch clicking is not the same as the chuck clicking. It looks like these chucks have a secondary tightening system after the initial closing of the chuck. Sometimes when I "power open" the chuck, it will enter this mode even without a drill and become stiff. to come out of this condition, I ave to reverse the action so it becomes loose again.
                      Helder Ferreira
                      Setubal, Portugal

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        OMG! And I thought I could be overly verbose. Not only is that almost impossible to read, but I gave up even trying to fast-scroll to the bottom. I mean REALLY?

                        Perhaps the answer is there, but it will be faster to earn the money to order a chuck and then wait for the USPS to deliver it. Then take it apart, Etc.

                        I think I just discovered a new way to protect your idea when you patent it. Make the description so long and complicated that no one can ever say for sure what the idea ever was or is.

                        In the Rohm brochure the manual locking feature is shown by an arrow that points to a bit of metal. That's it. No explanation. The self lock is simple, they use a screw thread that tightens when the chuck is in use. This is the same screw thread that is used to manually tighten and loosen the chuck.



                        Originally posted by Willy View Post
                        I found a very good and detailed explanation of what is described by Bosch as an autolock feature that my particular drill came with on it's Rohm all metal chuck. Not sure of the exact model of chuck it has as I'm too busy at the moment to look it up.
                        However the link below goes into great detail complete with lots of illustrations to help visualize the internal workings, so no need to dissect the internals of your own chucks. LOL
                        I have not had time to do more than just have a cursory quick peek, I'll leave that for when I get back in the house as I'm up to my armpits in alligators at the shop at present.
                        Hope this link is a good one to help shed light on this elusive "feature".

                        I'm thinking this feature is found on a lot of chucks as it does seem to cross many flavors of drills.

                        A keyless chuck having both an automatic locking feature and a manual locking feature. The automatic locking feature provides for automatic locking of the chuck in a tightened state when a predetermined tightening torque has been exceeded. The chuck can be utilized with only the automatic locking feature engaged. If desired, a manual locking feature can also be engaged wherein rotation of the outer sleeve relative to the body is prevented. A retaining feature can be employed to inhibit the movement of the manual locking feature between a locked and unlocked position. The retaining feature thereby avoids accidental engaging or disengaging of the manual locking feature.





                        Paul A.
                        SE Texas

                        And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                        You will find that it has discrete steps.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          I remember when aspirin bottles were not "sealed for my safety" and you could actually open the salad dressing without tools. Back when bottles were made of glass, lids were metal, and men were men. Women were usually FBI agents.

                          You didn't see any ads for lawyers whatsoever back then.

                          I could see the carbide jaws having a use on a stationary machine such as a mill, but not so sure about a portable handheld tool.

                          Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                          Now, wait, wait, Wait, WAIT, WAIT A MINUTE!
                          .......
                          But no argument on the "lawyers" bit.

                          I saw something else that I think I like in that Rohm brochure: carbide inserts on the jaws of some of the chucks. Any comment on that? Good? Bad? OK, but not worth any extra price?

                          25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                            Now, wait, wait, Wait, WAIT, WAIT A MINUTE!

                            Perhaps I am wrong, but I always thought it was the CLUTCH, which is built into the DRILL ITSELF that clicked or ratcheted. Not the drill chuck. I will grant that they are close together, but can't the chuck be removed while the clutch, and therefore the clicker or ratchet remains in the drill?

                            It is only one manufacturer, but I just finished looking through that Rohm brochure, page by page, and did not see any kind of clutch or device that would click in any of the chucks shown there.

                            Or does this idea only apply to chucks intended for high end, industrial use as on drill presses, milling machines, CNC centers, etc.? Do those high end (expensive) chucks have clutches or some kind of mechanism that clicks as part of the chuck itself? I can't answer that question in my economy shop. My best chuck is a key style Rohm.

                            But no argument on the "lawyers" bit. Good luck on getting anyone to remove a battery before changing tools. That could even be more dangerous than anything that the drill might do to you; just imagine doing that at the top of a tall ladder or on a steep roof. NO THANKS! I would bet that a slick lawyer could make that argument stick in a lawsuit. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was following the manufacturer's instructions when he lost his balance trying to hold the drill, the battery, and insert and tighten a drill bit. After falling 47 feet to the ground, he is paralyzed for life. We demand X million dollars."

                            I saw something else that I think I like in that Rohm brochure: carbide inserts on the jaws of some of the chucks. Any comment on that? Good? Bad? OK, but not worth any extra price?




                            My Panasonics came with a 'ratcheting' chuck, so instead of a smooth turn it had litte clicks as it opened or closed, had nothing to do with any clutch or turn back locking device. It was extremely obnoxious to use so much so that they got replaced ASAP. I would mutter expletives about who the f**k would make something like this every time I used them. Some cubicial guy I suppose. My Hitachi had a moronic chuck locking device that was equality stupid.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
                              ..................

                              I could see the carbide jaws having a use on a stationary machine such as a mill, but not so sure about a portable handheld tool.
                              I have two DeWalt battery hammer drills. The old one, that I have had for 20 years, and one I got 10 years or more ago in order to get replacement batteries (the set was cheaper than 2 batteries).

                              I used the old one for many years because the new one had carbide chuck jaws and I figured they would last a week. I got tired of the slippery chuck on the old one (slippery on the outside to tighten or loosen) and started using the new one. The new one also locks to loosen the chuck, which has a click tightening mechanism. The lock makes it so much easier to tighten and loosen that I rarely use the old one now.

                              The carbide tipped jaws have not been any issue at all.

                              CNC machines only go through the motions.

                              Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                              Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                              Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                              I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                              Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
                                I remember when aspirin bottles were not "sealed for my safety" and you could actually open the salad dressing without tools. Back when bottles were made of glass, lids were metal, and men were men. Women were usually FBI agents.
                                And I remember the Tylenol bottles with cyanide - 40 years ago. That's what started the trend.


                                -js
                                There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                                Location: SF Bay Area

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