OT- To All Who Post on HSM - Assistance to our Continued Forum Use IMHO

[Rich Carlstedt]

Hey Rich-
You want me to use my real name?
What do you have planned if I do?
Want me to send it to you?
What are you going to do?
Are you going to show up on my door step
and handle your issues with me man to man?
Please tell us your plans if you have my personal information ?
Don't forget, if you share them here it is public record.
Best if you silently hunt me down and serve up you dish silently
with me. Good luck and I am expecting you.
You just showed me your cards fella.

-Doozer

Hey Doozer--you are jumping to conclusions---way off the beaten path.
I have no interest in you, your name, or where you live. !!! double !
What I say is public with my name on it
You can do whatever you want, or say what you want--just don't dream up nonsense.
Rich

[A.K. Boomer]

Dooze would you at least give us your address if we told you we have a free pill box for you? you can make up a fake name nobody cares about that we just want to give you a gift - all the days of the week with separate daytime compartments,,, very nice, extended lip with a hole in it so you can where it around your neck and "never forget"

think about it buddy...

[Doc Nickel]

I am not a machinist so every little bit of Machine Shop info here is like gold to me.

-I agree! I've learned a ton here, over the years. But that's exactly my point: The best of the material is being intentionally made more and more difficult to find, read and follow.

And the fact is, we really shouldn't be doing that, we can't be doing that- we need to attract readers, not push them away. ALL discussion boards like this are under intense competition from Facebook.I've been a regular user of sites like this since the Win95 days, and in the past ten years or so, I've seen one board after another move over to Facebook. Everybody is on Facebook now.

When I started my little biz, there were literally three or four dozen boards specifically for paintball- specific styles of play, specific markers, regions, etc. Today, there's two, and both are faint shadows of their former selves. Everyone has, of course, moved over to Facebook.

There was, for the longest time, a hot board for 4WD and offroading. One of the biggest vehicle boards on the 'net. I loved reading it in part as I'm a bit of an offroader myself, but mainly for the often amazing fabrication skills shown. People were building their own CNC press brakes, converting manual tubing benders into hydraulic, building their own "Portal" axles, engineering their own 'buggy' frames, making their own CNC plasma tables!

Today the place is dead. The software shows the latest post for each topic, and I look down the popular sections, and see 20hrs, 2d, 7d,10hr, 3d, 5mo, 7mo, 15hr, 6d, etc. etc.

That's not the sign of a healthy board. And it's been that way in years.

Here, we make it hard to find the 'good stuff'. Facebook forces it on you. It spoon-feeds you everything you want to see or know, and does everything it can to both keep you there and keep you checking back in forty times a day. It's already extremely stiff competition, and we're actively, intentionally degrading our own board rather than trying to improve it.

Say there's two gas stations: One makes you drive around back, through a gate, and get into a line to use the single gas pump. The other you can drive in easily off the street, go directly to any one of the 20 pumps, and an attendant will come out, pump your gas, clean your windshield and check your tires.

Which one would you use?

Doc.

[A.K. Boomer]

Say there's two gas stations: One makes you drive around back, through a gate, and get into a line to use the single gas pump. The other you can drive in easily off the street, go directly to any one of the 20 pumps, and an attendant will come out, pump your gas, clean your windshield and check your tires.

Which one would you use?

Doc.

Which ones cheaper?

[Doozer]

Dooze would you at least give us your address if we told you we have a free pill box for you? you can make up a fake name nobody cares about that we just want to give you a gift - all the days of the week with separate daytime compartments,,, very nice, extended lip with a hole in it so you can where it around your neck and "never forget"

think about it buddy...

One I took a Valium pill before I went to the dentist to have my wisdom teeth pulled
and holy cow ! ! ! Shlt was floating and I had to have mom drive me to the dentist
on whatever cloud I was on. I need one of those on my walk from my car to my
desk at the office. AllllllllllllRiiiiiiiiight ! ! !

-D

[A.K. Boomer]

One I took a Valium pill before I went to the dentist to have my wisdom teeth pulled
and holy cow ! ! ! Shlt was floating and I had to have mom drive me to the dentist
on whatever cloud I was on. I need one of those on my walk from my car to my
desk at the office. AllllllllllllRiiiiiiiiight ! ! !

-D

I like the nitrous oxide, "ok that should do it --- i'll check on you in about 5 or 10 minutes to see how your doing" (muffled --- "OK") then Huff huff huff ------------ ten minutes later " ok how we feeling nowowow? " muffled "ehhh really can't tell much of a difference" (note to self --- holy fuque where am I am who am I talking too?) "ok im just going to crack the valve a little more and check on you in a bit" (muffled Ro -k'b) huff huff huff, who knows how long goes bye ------
"Ok now how we feeling?"

"bluah blua - blub buh" ----------- " Wow-w-w-w-w ----------- yeaha-a-a-a-a - I thinkkkkkk he's over-r-r-r done-e-e-e-e-e-e-e hand-d-d meeeeeeeeeee the drillllllllll ---------------------------------------- suctionnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,,, we-e-e-e got a-a-a droooooolerrr - more-e-e suctionnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn " followed by echoing sounds of something spinning 460,000 RPM's...

[Joel]

Which ones cheaper?

They are both free.
However, one of the 'service stations' takes your VIN and runs it, looks at your tag, insurance and express pass information, rifles through your trunk and glovebox, looks under your floormats, goes under your hood and pokes around, looks under your car, checks your maintenance records, checks your ashtray, sniffs your underwear, and anything else that can possibly be invaded. This is done with almost no checks and balances, and is done in effort to find out as much about you as is possible, and then the information is subsequently used however they see fit and in any way that can be profited from, in an nearly unregulated manner...

[Doc Nickel]

I suppose I should ask: Does anyone actually even care?

Facebook is not benign. They have a HUGE amount of power and influence- including heavy political influence, which they've exercised several times- and control what you can and can't post, who you can and can't talk to, and what you can and can't talk about. That's not hyperbole- It's seen every day in just the paintball sections, when some officious busybody wants to, and often succeeds, in getting a section dedicated to a specific paintball gun shut down or blocked, because it deals with a gun. And of course All Guns Are Bad and so Must Be Banned.

I used to be able to 'grassroots advertise' my products and services easily and widely, in my own markets. Thanks to Facebook I can no longer do that- and even if I joined Facebook, I still wouldn't be able to do that without paying through the nose for the privilege. (IE, thousands per month.) Facebook does this intentionally.

And we are helping push new readers towards that rather than welcoming them here. One of the absolutely easiest things we could be doing is simply having fresh, regular content out on the primary forum, where anyone can and will see it. That's the whole freakin' point of this site. Hey, it's a machinist board, let's see if they have any machining stuff.

And most of the time, no, we don't. The people actually building and machining things pile those pics in a few 'random chit chat' threads that few new readers are going to bother with, while the actual main page has threads about broken cordless drill chucks, Busy Bee business practices and issues with UPS. Admittedly there's slightly more actual content, today, than in recent weeks, but at the same time, the already-over-seven-thousand-post-long pile o' crap thread has gained another two freakin' pages.

Am I the only one here that cares? If we don't do something, this board will very likely die off before too long. We already know that Village Press considers it more of a burden than a boon- how much lower does traffic have to go before they decide to pull the plug entirely?

Doc.

[J Tiers]

I suppose I should ask: Does anyone actually even care?

Facebook is not benign. They have a HUGE amount of power and influence- including heavy political influence, which they've exercised several times- and control what you can and can't post, who you can and can't talk to, and what you can and can't talk about. That's not hyperbole- It's seen every day in just the paintball sections, when some officious busybody wants to, and often succeeds, in getting a section dedicated to a specific paintball gun shut down or blocked, because it deals with a gun. And of course All Guns Are Bad and so Must Be Banned.
........................................

And we are helping push new readers towards that rather than welcoming them here. One of the absolutely easiest things we could be doing is simply having fresh, regular content out on the primary forum, where anyone can and will see it. That's the whole freakin' point of this site. Hey, it's a machinist board, let's see if they have any machining stuff.

And most of the time, no, we don't. The people actually building and machining things pile those pics in a few 'random chit chat' threads that few new readers are going to bother with, while the actual main page has threads about broken cordless drill chucks, Busy Bee business practices and issues with UPS. Admittedly there's slightly more actual content, today, than in recent weeks, but at the same time, the already-over-seven-thousand-post-long pile o' crap thread has gained another two freakin' pages.

And then there is this thread we are in.....

Am I the only one here that cares? If we don't do something, this board will very likely die off before too long. We already know that Village Press considers it more of a burden than a boon- how much lower does traffic have to go before they decide to pull the plug entirely?

Doc.

You are not. There have been some other discussions.

Maybe the VP folks do not care, but they are also at risk of losing the readers for the magazines, and thus the magazines themselves.

Maybe they don't care about that, even, since they have lots of printing business aside from their own magazines, which may simply be a nuisance to them, getting in the way of the printing jobs for others.

[JRouche]

Maybe the VP folks do not care, but they are also at risk of losing the readers for the magazines, and thus the magazines themselves.

Maybe they don't care about that,

True, the Book company and Publishers dont care. Why would they? This is a side line nuisance in the business part of it all.

Ill bet there are the "money" folks saying why do we host that side of the business?? Then is when things change. Nice knowing you folks... JR

[George Bulliss]

There are an awful lot of assumptions going on in this thread. First, I do care about this board – with shows dwindling or disappearing and newsstands fading away, it's the one place someone can hear about our magazines or books. Other than as an added benefit to our readers and subscribers that is the main reason for this board.

As proof of the "yes we do care" statement, you need not look any further than our upgrade to the current hosting system and software. It may not be the best, and it isn't, but it does represent an investment of time and money, not something we would have done if we didn't care.

I get the argument that some of the super sized threads may contribute to a decline in stand alone project threads but it's being presented as the only reason, and I think that is far from the truth. I did close the shop made tools thread and have not noticed a change since. There probably was some uptick, but nothing I can measure or positively connect to the closing of SMT.

The truth is, the page views of the BBS have been in decline since before those threads even existed and the factors causing the decline remain. In the 14 years I've been doing this, there has been a sizable increase in boards with similar subjects. Not so much recently, but we are far from being the only game in town when it comes to hobby machining.

Another factor is a change in the number of options to present your projects. Outlets like Instructables use a lot of content that may have landed here in the past. YouTube is, of course, a big diversion, with it basically being the go-to source for hobby machining knowledge now days. The promise that you too can be the next Joe Pie or Tony, no matter how slim the chance may be, is a strong incentive for those wanting to share their work. Finally, blogs and personal websites are easy to set up and they increase in number every year.

One aspect of the super threads that is not apparent from viewing the board is the affect they have had on a good number of the "silent majority." These are the folks that are not comfortable or computer savvy enough to start their own threads or to participate heavily. I do get feedback from many of them via email and in person at the shows. There are an awful lot of people who first learn of this board due to these large threads. The bigger the thread, the more it gets reposted and the more likely it is that someone will visit us as a result. While it's true that project threads are the lifeblood of the board, new eyes are needed as well. So, any elimination of the super threads must also take into consideration that there is a negative effect that goes with it.

That's a lot of blah, blah, but I hope it does help to explain my actions, at least a little. The three magazines I put together have basically become a one man show and I have much less time to devote to the board than I used to. However, I do still give it thought and want you to know that the fact that I have not taken advice does not mean I have not considered it – I have. Right now I do not feel that the two remaining threads are killing the board, but I'm willing to admit I may be wrong on that and my thinking may change in the future.

[J Tiers]

All that said, it sort of does not matter if the threads threaten the board's existence. I don't know that they do, although I suspect so, but I think there is no question that they hide interesting posts in what really is just a "messy pile".

Just look at what they do, and see if that is what the board needs.

They suck up the posts, (unquestionably true) into a format which hides them from convenient view (unquestionably true) without even labels (replies usually have no titles, so also unquestionably true) and posts in them are more difficult to search for, although it is "possible" (unquestionably true, since you cannot do a title search, and get 5 to 20 times more hits, many irrelevant).

So, what's to like about them? Just that they are easy? Seems so.

[MichaelP]

^^here^^ I couldn't say it better. George, do you really think that the unmanageable piles attract those "silent readers", while having a well structured system with the same data being organized and searchable will attract less of them? I'm sorry, but I have no reason to agree with this.

Besides, the piles will continue being attractable for those who prefer dumpster digging even after the piles are locked and become stickies. They shouldn't be deleted, of course.

[Bob Engelhardt]

^^here^^ I couldn't say it better. George, do you really think that the unmanageable piles attract those "silent readers", while having a well structured system with the same data being organized and searchable will attract less of them? I'm sorry, but I have no reason to agree with this.

...

He did say "I do get feedback from many of them via email and in person at the shows." You say that you "... have no reason to agree ... " (meaning "I don't agree" TBH) , but what are your facts?

There have always been the (well?) structured system alongside these piles, but it's the piles that George hears about. It's the piles that are less intimidating for the new poster.

[George Bulliss]

Yes, I do believe that they attract people, I've had enough people tell me that. I have at least several people a week contact me because they have problems signing up and logging onto the site and during the often very long process to get them up to speed I've heard a number of comments about why they want to sign up. These are not forum pros, they are having troubles getting onto the site after all.

The large threads are much easier to post in for people in this position. It's intimidating to start a thread and there are enough examples of guys being jumped on for not starting off with the perfect question, etc. Even jumping into an existing thread can give pause, but the big generic threads with subjects that span the spectrum provide a bit of a feeling of anonymity.

Although I agree that the content in the big threads can be tough to find after the passage of time, it's not any easier finding a dedicated thread after a year or so. I use Google when I search the BBS because, as we all know, the provided search function sucks. I've found that a search for something like Philips screwdrivers will happily turn up lots of results, no matter what thread they were sitting in. Now, if you are talking about the provided search, it may be true that it's easier to search by thread title, but I've tried that before and if you don't have the title exactly correct you may or may not get a result.

Like I said before, I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong, but I'm just not seeing the big threads being the black holes they are claimed to be.