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  • Marterial Opinions

    I'm curious what you all would get and why

    So I am making an ER40 collet chuck for dad for Christmas for his 10" Rockwell. I had a Shars set tru with backplate in my watchlist for ages, but it is OOS. So I ordred a 100mm version and now I need stock to make a backplate. I intend to buy a foot of 4" stock just to have some around for projects. It is nice to be able to afford that now.

    So, looking on McM I can get
    1. Cast iron $86, Tues
    2. Ductile iron $99, Tues
    3. 1045 $121, Tues
    4. 4140, $200, Tues
    On Midwest, I can get 4140 for $106, probably mid to late jan. Not going to be "Christmas" present.

    So no matter what I get from McM I feel like I'm being ripped about 50% compared to Midwest, but midwest doesn't have the cheap irons. I love the way their cast iron turns, but it's lack of tensile strength is a let down. The ductile is probably a good choice. The 1045 doesn't really make sense since 4140 is objectively better. Probably matches the steel collet chuck best anyway. What would you do?
    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

  • #2
    Well, I made my ER32 chuck out of bog-standard A36 structural for free. Works just fine, too. ID threaded for my spindle nose, other end threaded for the ER nut and bored taper. Did it all "in place" so there's zip runout. Used Frank Mari's parts to complete it (Mari Tool on PM)

    Forgot to add: have you looked on eBay for the steel? No kidding, they are beating the major suppliers in a big way on getting small lots and drop off ends. And when all else fails, I like Online Metals.

    For a one-off job, how does this look? https://www.ebay.com/itm/40224811041...8AAOSwNOxeqcIZ
    Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 12-12-2021, 01:13 PM.
    25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
      Well, I made my ER32 chuck out of bog-standard A36 structural for free. Works just fine, too. ID threaded for my spindle nose, other end threaded for the ER nut and bored taper. Did it all "in place" so there's zip runout. Used Frank Mari's parts to complete it (Mari Tool on PM)

      Forgot to add: have you looked on eBay for the steel? No kidding, they are beating the major suppliers in a big way on getting small lots and drop off ends. And when all else fails, I like Online Metals.

      For a one-off job, how does this look? https://www.ebay.com/itm/40224811041...8AAOSwNOxeqcIZ
      I'm afraid that would be false economy. Not enough stock for my saw to hold it, leaves me with a nearly unusable 1 7/8"ish piece, and I have to eliminate 9/16 of stock from the OD.
      21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
      1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

      Comment


      • #4
        If you aren't going to heat treat it, then #5- 1144 stress proof. It offers higher tensile strength, better gall resisance, much easier machining and less distortion.

        I buy from Midwest occasionally, but gawd are they slow.
        I just need one more tool,just one!

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        • #5
          Nothing wrong with cast iron for backplates unless its for high speed operation in which case ductile would be better.
          'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

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          • #6
            I used to know a retired cop that sold handguns at gun shows for a hobby. If you had the money in your pocket, and you looked like you knew what you were doing, and he didn't get any bad vibes, he'd sell you a handgun at $20 over his cost, a fabulous deal. He and I got along great. I can't begin to calculate the money I spent with him. We eventually became good friends before he moved to FL.

            Back to the point - Many, many times I watched guys come up to his table, interrupt his conversation with a potential customer to tell him "The guy two rows over has this gun for $30 less than you!" My guy: "Ok, then go buy it from him." Interrupter: "He doesn't have any more." My guy: "Dude, you're getting ripped off! When I don't have a gun in stock, it's only $20!" My guy would turn back to the interrupted conversation, and a couple of minutes later the interrupter would figure it out and wander away.

            If you want the stock NOW, then the price difference between McMaster-Carr and Midwest doesn't matter. With McMaster-Carr you can have it on Tuesday, and complete your project in time for Christmas. That option doesn't exist with Midwest.

            Decide what is important - time or money.
            For most it's not even close, but it's your choice.
            Last edited by DrMike; 12-12-2021, 02:35 PM.
            SE MI, USA

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            • #7
              Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
              If you aren't going to heat treat it, then #5- 1144 stress proof. It offers higher tensile strength, better gall resisance, much easier machining and less distortion.

              I buy from Midwest occasionally, but gawd are they slow.
              It's over $300 on McM

              Originally posted by Richard P Wilson View Post
              Nothing wrong with cast iron for backplates unless its for high speed operation in which case ductile would be better.
              Sure I know. I've spun a 9" CI faceplate up to 1700 RPM with no worries. 4" could take anything. Perhaps I should rephrase my question. If you needed to have 4x11" of material in your shop for general purpose use, what would you get?
              21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
              1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                It's over $300 on McM
                1018 is $200 and it machines like crap and warps just looking at it funny. Besides, it's for your Dad, you've been a ball and chain for 18 years minimum, you owe it to him man!

                I just need one more tool,just one!

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                • #9
                  Personally, I'd go for ductile iron for $99, delivered on Tuesday.
                  Much more useful than plain CI, much less expensive than steel.
                  Use 1" for dad's project, have 10-11" in the material bin (shelf, container, box, rack. room, yard?) for yourself.
                  What's not to love?
                  SE MI, USA

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wierdscience View Post

                    1018 is $200 and it machines like crap and warps just looking at it funny. Besides, it's for your Dad, you've been a ball and chain for 18 years minimum, you owe it to him man!
                    God 1018 is garbage.

                    Dad already knows what he is getting so I may just go for the 4140. I need some experience with that material anyway, I've only cut it once.
                    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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                    • #11
                      Since cost is priority 1 I would search Ebay and CL for several years until I find a SCORE, there is christmas every year, wait until you find the lowest possible price on the material.
                      Last edited by Bented; 12-12-2021, 02:52 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                        ...1018 is $200 and it machines like crap and warps just looking at it funny...
                        Sorry but 1018 doesn't warp. It's the cold-finish process that creates the tendency to warp. Machine
                        the stressed "skin" off one side of cold-finished bar and it will warp. Cold-finished round bar has some
                        of the same stresses built in but it's uniformly distributed so you don't notice it when you machine a
                        layer off the OD of a piece of round stock. It's hard to find 1018 in the hot-rolled form since it's sort of
                        become the standard material for all the cold-finished shapes but if you do happen to find some hot-
                        rolled it doesn't warp any more than other hot-rolled steel.

                        My go-to material for general machining is 1040 or 1045 hot-rolled. It's a nice compromise between
                        strength and machinability and t's definitely nicer to work with than 1018--but not by a large margin. Most
                        of the time when you're machining something the first thing you do is turn the OD down and I can't see
                        the point of paying extra for the cold-finish when I'm just going to turn it into chips...

                        Keith
                        __________________________
                        Just one project too many--that's what finally got him...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                          I'm afraid that would be false economy. Not enough stock for my saw to hold it, leaves me with a nearly unusable 1 7/8"ish piece, and I have to eliminate 9/16 of stock from the OD.
                          That's what a lathe is for
                          make all the unusable part into chips.

                          Besides, check out the other similar deals, maybe someone has something closer to what you need on there. I just saw a chunk of 1144 going for $30, 4: dia x 2" lg.
                          25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                          • #14
                            If I were you I'd belly up to the bar and get the 4140 and never look back.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nc5a View Post
                              If I were you I'd belly up to the bar and get the 4140 and never look back.
                              I was about to. But I thought about it for a second and decided to see if I could get something premade. 'Doh. https://littlemachineshop.com/produc...ProductID=1918

                              No brainier. I'll end up with the stupid studs sticking through instead of cap screws from the back like I'd like.. but that's a small penalty. If I don't like it, I can always build one.
                              21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                              1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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