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OT Plumbing / copper corrosion fix - advice sought

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by Doozer View Post

    It does look like a shlt show.
    I agree. Replace it with PVC
    and be done with it forever.

    -D
    I don't like plastic pipe on the supply side but am all for it on drain pipe.

    JL...............

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    From the position of the hole, it does seem like something that would happen from years of the same corrosive stuff going down the pipe and sitting at that spot. Does not look right for erosion by water and grit, etc.

    My surmise (not a guess, and not really an informed opinion) is that the rest of that pipe may look similar, it just has not quite been penetrated yet. Looks like you may need to cut quite a bit off. I'd do a bit at a time, until you get to sound pipe, (if you do at any place). Then use your connector and put in PVC from there up.

    If there is no sound pipe, then you have a problem. I would assume that has already occurred to you.

    Since you seem to have put in the pipe, the damage seems to have happened whil you have been living there. Any reasons come to mind?

    I have seen drain cleaners eat up brass pipe, but have not seen copper get eaten up. Usually the zinc in the brass is eaten away, and the porous copper remnant is left. Sulfur compounds can do that to copper, though.

    Gas company found that out after they installed a lot of copper service lines, using coal ash and clinker as gravel for backfill. Houses kept exploding when the pipes leaked and the gas got into the house through the hole the line went through. The clinker was both acidic, and had sulfur compounds.




    We had roots like crazy. Every year they needed cleared. That happened to our pipes one time they were being "rooted". Took the guy over an hour to get the snake back out. The cutter had bounced off a big root and gone out through the ancient pipe.

    We had the pipes lined after that. They had to dig up that part to remove the root mass, though. After lining, no more root problems.
    Never had a root problem., all iron sewer pipe here. You must have the old clay segmented pipe. My aunts house being much older had clay pipe going to the sewer and she constantly had a root problem. The plumber sent a camera snake down the pipe one day. I could see the sections in the old pipe and the roots growing through them as well as through the cracks in it.

    JL.................

    Leave a comment:


  • Doozer
    replied
    Originally posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Frankly it looked like it all needed to be torn out, cleaned up and redone in PVC when it was apart for the big pictures. Lots of external corrosion then. Looks to have gotten worse since then if that's possible.
    It does look like a shlt show.
    I agree. Replace it with PVC
    and be done with it forever.

    -D

    Leave a comment:


  • wmgeorge
    replied
    Frankly it looked like it all needed to be torn out, cleaned up and redone in PVC when it was apart for the big pictures. Lots of external corrosion then. Looks to have gotten worse since then if that's possible.
    Last edited by wmgeorge; 12-15-2021, 09:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • darryl
    replied
    Being into electronics, I've made myself a fair number of pc boards. That involves etching, so out comes the ferric chloride. That stuff wants to stick around, so if you can't scrub the surfaces, like inside the drain pipes, it's just a matter of time before pinholes start to form. My whole plumbing system is copper, including some 3 inch pipe, until it hits the cast iron where it goes through the concrete wall in the basement. I can't wait until it starts leaking- I'm going to have some fun then.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alan Smith
    replied
    Water with a high iron content will do that to copper pipe. Sometimes very rapidly. My brother had to instal stainless steel water pipe and fittings at his last house as the water from a private well had an iron content just within legal limits for human consumption.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    From the position of the hole, it does seem like something that would happen from years of the same corrosive stuff going down the pipe and sitting at that spot. Does not look right for erosion by water and grit, etc.

    My surmise (not a guess, and not really an informed opinion) is that the rest of that pipe may look similar, it just has not quite been penetrated yet. Looks like you may need to cut quite a bit off. I'd do a bit at a time, until you get to sound pipe, (if you do at any place). Then use your connector and put in PVC from there up.

    If there is no sound pipe, then you have a problem. I would assume that has already occurred to you.

    Since you seem to have put in the pipe, the damage seems to have happened whil you have been living there. Any reasons come to mind?

    I have seen drain cleaners eat up brass pipe, but have not seen copper get eaten up. Usually the zinc in the brass is eaten away, and the porous copper remnant is left. Sulfur compounds can do that to copper, though.

    Gas company found that out after they installed a lot of copper service lines, using coal ash and clinker as gravel for backfill. Houses kept exploding when the pipes leaked and the gas got into the house through the hole the line went through. The clinker was both acidic, and had sulfur compounds.


    Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
    ..............................
    I had a section of cast iron at a Y where the kitchen drain met the laundry room drain pipe. Had to ream it at least once a year. My father used all kinds of drain cleaner over the years.
    One day when I was sending the snake down the pipe it suddenly wouldn't go any more. I pulled it out and the spring on the end was packed with brown dirt. It poked through the pipe and was burrowing into the ground. Had to cut a section out of the garage floor to repair it.

    JL.................
    We had roots like crazy. Every year they needed cleared. That happened to our pipes one time they were being "rooted". Took the guy over an hour to get the snake back out. The cutter had bounced off a big root and gone out through the ancient pipe.

    We had the pipes lined after that. They had to dig up that part to remove the root mass, though. After lining, no more root problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • true temper
    replied
    Clean it up good and fiberglass it.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    Plumbing repairs are not fun, especially under a kitchen sink. I've done a lot of soldering in close quarters and when I'm close to a wood panel I slip a piece or two of sheet metal behind the pipe.
    And yeah, some drain cleaners will eventually eat through the copper. A drain pipe usually clogs in the same spot all the time so that can amount to years of drain cleaners soaking a clog in the same area.
    I had a section of cast iron at a Y where the kitchen drain met the laundry room drain pipe. Had to ream it at least once a year. My father used all kinds of drain cleaner over the years.
    One day when I was sending the snake down the pipe it suddenly wouldn't go any more. I pulled it out and the spring on the end was packed with brown dirt. It poked through the pipe and was burrowing into the ground. Had to cut a section out of the garage floor to repair it.

    JL.................

    Leave a comment:


  • Dan Dubeau
    replied
    You could cut it off shorter, then desolder it at the elbow by running the torch around the inside of the pipe to keep the surrounding area flame safe using the pipe stub as a shield. Then do the same in reverse with a short stub and then solder on a copper-abs connector.

    I faced almost that exact same problem about 12 years ago on our condo bathroom reno, and that's what I did. I think I even still have the extra copper-abs adapter as i bought 2 because I couldn't remember what size it was when i was at home depot and it was cheaper than a 2nd trip.

    Best of luck. I hate plumbing repairs more than working on cars.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    I'll tell you what got the copper pipe ----------------- 70+ years is what got the copper pipe!!!

    That's pretty good service so glad to see your sacking up and doing it right. lifes to short to live in a leaking stinky house...

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    Last One of those I fixed involved four wraps of inner tube rubber and four spiral hose clamps....35 years ago and it hasn't leaked a drop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post
    Cut it off where the crack ends, so that you can inspect farther down. If it's not all rotten too, use a no-hub coupler (is that what an "MJ" is?) to connect to PVC. E.g.:

    If it is rotten, then do the right thing & remove it back to the elbow. Actually, it shouldn't be an elbow, but a sanitary tee for a vent. But that horse has left the barn.
    right on. reading that twigged my brain - and I found a photo of when I had it apart. Should have thought of that earlier. You are right it ties into the vent. I really hope I'm not unsoldering at the T, it'll take a bunch heat into a closed in area where there is old wood and I can't get at If a fire starts

    Everything after the MJ, my work, is ABS. I going to cut back the copper past the hole, extend the ABS to it, and MJ camp them together. Bonus, I've got enough ABS stuff in stock





    This is what gets called an MJ clamp around here

    Last edited by Mcgyver; 12-14-2021, 09:19 PM.

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  • Bob Engelhardt
    replied
    Cut it off where the crack ends, so that you can inspect farther down. If it's not all rotten too, use a no-hub coupler (is that what an "MJ" is?) to connect to PVC. E.g.:


    If it is rotten, then do the right thing & remove it back to the elbow. Actually, it shouldn't be an elbow, but a sanitary tee for a vent. But that horse has left the barn.

    Leave a comment:


  • wmgeorge
    replied
    As corroded as that is un-soldering is not a option. Cut back the pipe, (saw) clean it up and slip a Fernco coupling and re-pipe to the sink with PVC or chromed brass if you wish.

    Leave a comment:

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