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Frozen knee...need help!!!

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  • torker
    replied
    Thanks guys!
    I have to be honest...this morning, after hours of jacking that stupid knee back and forth, fore and aft...I was starting to wonder if this thing would ever come loose.
    When the spindle cracked it gave me a lot more git-up and go.
    Tomorrow I'm going to polish up one of the arbors and put a DI on it.
    I'm still weary. Was told by two people that it needed an arbor. Neither know anything about machines so I'm at a loss what it really needs.
    Honestly, this thing is in very good shape despite the rust.
    Once the jackscrew problem is solved I'm thinking this will be a serviceable mill.
    Just think...it was almost hauled out for scrap.
    Now we have hours of cleaning and bolt busting...lol!
    Russ

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    now the fun starts

    Good deal bro, now yu'll be able to see what you got, nice work.

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  • WJHartson
    replied
    Russ, your new motto should be "If I can't fix it - it ain't broke". Congrats on your accomplishments so far. Keep smiling.

    Joe

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I guess a WELL DONE is in order,Congrats.

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  • torker
    replied
    Originally posted by John Stevenson
    Where's the damn pictures ?????????????
    John, it wouldn't be worth taking pics yet.
    There's still too much light reflection from the big grin on my face!
    Actually I now have the little bevel gear freed up but the jackscrew will still only turn a little better than half a turn.
    There is something metalic stopping it.
    Finally figured out what the extra bevel gears are for.
    Ha..the knee is powered as well.
    There's three little gears way up under the knee right behind the bevel drive gear for the knee.
    Very hard to see up in there.
    It almost seems like a pin or bolt has backed out and is catching on something.
    All the gears are held on with 1/8" or 3/16" drift pins...one may have worked loose.
    Have to get up in there and clean some black goo out to see it better.
    Mark..thanks for your help!
    Russ

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  • John Stevenson
    replied
    Where's the damn pictures ?????????????

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  • jimmstruk
    replied
    Congratulations!! Sounds like you are on the way to success!! JIM

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  • aboard_epsilon
    replied
    THATS GOOD I'M GLAD FOR YOU


    Well done

    just make sure all the clobber on top of the knee is removed before you go any further

    the table ..the swivel gubbins etc



    all the best.mark

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  • torker
    replied
    HEHEHEHEHE!!!!!
    Score...
    Kroil and hillbilly 1....siezed spindle 0
    Kroil and hillbilly 1...siezed knee 0
    9:57 Mountain Time...after ten thousand (or so) times, rocking the big bull gear back and forth with a piece of oak...spindle breaks free!
    11:02 Mountain Time....after 10 million times...rocking the knee back and forth and side to side..Kroil starts squirting up. Modified chizel on air hammer knocks out gib like nothing. Unbelievable...knee is still frozen on the other side. One more shot with the jack and "BANG"...knee lets loose!
    Yipeeee!....Ooops...unknown to me...the slip joint in the driveshaft is frozen also. When knee releases it snaps the ears off the driveshaft yoke. No big deal...common type of U-joint.
    One more thing is still frozen.
    There is a bevel gear in behind the bevel gear for the jackscrew. Very hard to get at. The knee jackscrew was frozen after all. It moves enough that I though it was just because the knee was froze. Couldn't see the little bevel gear.
    There may be hope after all! The spindle spins nicely but I still want to take it all apart.
    I still have to lift the knee off as well but have to remove the spindle once I learn how.
    There you go guys...find rusted junk...fix it!
    Russ

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  • torker
    replied
    Peter, Sir John already mentioned the removable part of the dovetail...no good here. It's all one casting that slides right up out the top(after you remove the spindle...grrr)
    The screw that holds the gib in has a shoulder that rides in a slot in the gib. This is how it pushes the gib up and down....as far as I can tell anyway.
    Russ

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  • Peter N
    replied
    Originally posted by torker
    The gib and dovetail are 1 1/2" wide (or so).
    The gib is 3/8" thick at the bottom and 3/16" thick at the top.
    I still can't figure what the screws (or whatever they are) that are around back of the dovetail are for.....
    Hmm. I just had a thought that may be a complete shot in the dark,and could of course be completely wrong, but maybe the gib strip is held semi-captive by the screws? With the thick end of the gib at the bottom what's to stop it falling out under gravity as it wears or the knee moves?
    Or another thought is that maybe the whole dovetail is the adjustable gib with a wear strip attached to it? The knee on my surface grinder is like this, it doesnt have a wear strip, but you undo 3 bolts and the dovetailed gib block comes away and then the knee will swing off the dovetail on the other side.

    Peter

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  • torker
    replied
    AK..also, I can't for the life of me figure why this machine was left outside either.
    There is nothing broken on it but one chip out of a bevel gear tooth for the X powerfeed. The X table is smooth as silk...has a bit of backlash but no worse than my new mill/drill. The ram is so smooth it almost fell out when I was moving the machine across the floor on rollers.
    The ways etc that I can see are in pretty darn good shape.
    I'm still waiting to find what is wrong...there must be something bad.
    Or maybe the rusted knee has always been the problem...who knows.
    The old machinist who had this before I did was crippled and was pretty much screwed in the head after the car accident and stroke he suffered.
    As far as I can tell he never did have this running.
    I think family and friends got this old piece of "junk" for him to play with and keep him amused. He wasn't capable of much for the last 15 years. He only had this for the past two years.
    It really is a shame.
    In its day this was probably a top of the line machine. It's very well thought out and heavy duty. I'd have loved to run it when it was still in good shape.
    I've owned or built a lot of pretty cool machines over the years but this one is the neatest one I've ever owned....too bad it don't worky!
    I'm thinking I'll probably spend some coin to get it fixed up right.
    To buy a new machine like this would be pretty pricey, even a decent used universal up here is pretty spendy.
    Course I have to really check it out first...it may have issues too serious to bother with but I don't think so.
    Russ

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  • torker
    replied
    John, I was hoping for that solution also but it isn't going to happen.
    The gib and dovetail are 1 1/2" wide (or so).
    The gib is 3/8" thick at the bottom and 3/16" thick at the top.
    I still can't figure what the screws (or whatever they are) that are around back of the dovetail are for. I can't see them well enough in the current position of the knee.
    There is also a funny hole drilled right beside the gib at the top. I've cleaned it out and it almost looks like someone was trying to shift some metal over against the gib with a round nose punch, similar to what we do with bearing caps on auto engines.
    AK..This is an OHIO #2 Universal, made by the Oesterlein Machine Company.
    Long since defunct.
    The front part of the spindle (the nose) spins nicely now. Was a bit dry but is lubed up and should be ok.
    It is a back geared machine so the main spindle is a two piece deal.
    The rear part of the spindle turns independant of the front unless the front cog is engaged.
    I'm having a devil of a time trying to fugure how it works because I can't turn the back part. Won't be able to take it apart until the rear spindle is freed either.
    There are some bolts holding some gears on that have to come out.
    Can't get at the back ones til it turns.
    BTW...I fibbed about the other gibs having only one screw...I didn't look properly until this morning. There is a screw at each end just like on my 14X40 lathe.
    That's why this gib for the knee is baffling. As was mentioned...you'd think it would be loose going one way and tight the other. The adjusting screw seems pretty sloppy now that it's been soaked with oil.
    Baby steps, baby steps....(reminding myself NOT to get the Tiger torch out and a BFH)
    Russ

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Damn that really chaps my hide when people leave good machinery out in the elements, not even a tarp,,,,, I want to get a bumper sticker that says "never --- ever --- ever --- hurt a machine..."
    If the thick end of your gib wedge is indeed at the bottom than the jack is the way to go, sorry bout freeking out but my machine is of very popular design and the exact oposite so if the gib was frozen to the base but free in the knee it would just self tighten with a jack, does your spindle even rotate? what kind of machine is this? you can always stone in the knee portion once disasembled but the base where the knee got "parked" is whats critical, hopefully not to much deviation there and maybe not a very popular working position although in your pic the knee screw looks about half way out,,, Soak the hell out of it, put your best speakers next to it and find a loud rock station, crank up the tunes and then go on a weeks vacation, if that dont work at least you had fun trying

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  • John Stevenson
    replied
    Sometimes on mill knees if the gib is wide enough the knee is free to clear the dovetails once the gib is removed.
    Same for the other slides, some do, some don't.

    My Victoria will clear and just lift off after twisting but a Bridgy won't.

    What I'm saying is you may not have to remove the spindle first.

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