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OT: Looking for an odd battery for a camcorder

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  • #1

    OT: Looking for an odd battery for a camcorder

    I've been cleaning up, and digging through stuff that we brought back from the Minnesota house that we are working on.

    So, I found a video camera. Not a really nice one, but it is in my possession, and I would use it if it worked. It's an "Omni2 2009-EF6-HDLM", and appears new and unused.

    Problem is that the battery seems to be dead. I think it was left uncharged long enough that the lithium battery dropped too low in voltage, and it will no longer allow recharging. The battery is an FV50, but that seems to be only a form factor description.

    All of the similar batteries I can find are 6.8-7.9V units (2 cell), but this one is not, it is a single cell voltage (3.7V to 4.2V), even though it looks as if it has two cells in it. It charges in the camera, I do not have an external charger for it. The charge light comes on but the battery does not go above the zero volts that it seems to have (I measured the terminal voltage)

    That type seems to be rare. as in I have yet to find anyone who has them. As I said, it is not the finest camera, but I actually have it, and it is worth a battery to find out if it is usable.

    Nothing at "Batteries and bulbs", nothing at any other on-line source I could find. Plenty of FV50 at 7.2V, nothing at 3.6.

    Anyone know of a source for odd but reasonably standard size battery packs who might have this?
    Last edited by J Tiers; 12-26-2021, 11:41 PM.
    CNC machines only go through the motions.

    Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
    Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
    Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
    I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
    Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I understand some cameras in this situation can be recovered by attempting to charge then leaving it disconnected for a few hours, such as overnight, and repeating.

    Comment

    • #3
      Done that already. No success.
      CNC machines only go through the motions.

      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

      Comment

      • #4
        It may take several tries.

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        • #5
          Well, it's had 4 or 5 so far.... Still at zero.

          The battery has sat for a minimum of 2 1/2 years that I can be certain of, and probably more like 5 years. It's flat. If it were any flatter, it would blow away.

          At a certain point, Li batteries will not recover at all, to my understanding. The internal protector just cuts them off, and that's the end of it.
          CNC machines only go through the motions.

          Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
          Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
          Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
          I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
          Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

          Comment

          • #6
            I have some lithium pouch cells that I bought from Hobby King more than 10 years ago, and they still read 3.7 volts. I also have some 6.8 volt 2S LiFePO4 packs bought at the same time but they only read 1 or 2 volts and will not take a charge. The difference is probably due to the packs having a protection circuit which is a constant drain. Can you show a picture of the lithium cell, and dimensions? You might find a lithium cell that is close enough in size to adapt. I found quite a few small lithium cells on Banggood or perhaps AliExpress, to replace one in my toy drone. I think it was 300 mAh replacing the original 250 mAh.

            Click image for larger version Name: Drone_5764.jpg Views: 407 Size: 110.4 KB ID: 1976980
            http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
            Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
            USA Maryland 21030

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            • #7
              Lithium batteries of various chemistries have BMS circuits somewhere, either inside the actual cells themselves or on a discrete PCB in the pack. One of the functions of the BMS is to open the output circuit if the battery reaches its low cutoff voltage. Good chance that is why you are reading zero volts and it will not take a charge. When the BMS opens, some designs go totally open circuit and the charge voltage never reaches the battery, other circuits will allow charge current into the battery but no current out.

              Best bet is to carefully open the pack up and see what is in there. IF the BMS is a circuit board the cell(s) can be directly charged (recovered is the term) at the actual battery terminals, bypassing the BMS. Recovery is done at a extremely small current, NOT the normal charging current using the OEM charger, you need to use a bench supply. Would need the AH capacity of the cells to suggest a recovery current but think in terms of 5-10ma as a example. Once the cell has recovered to over its cutoff voltage you and then charge normally.

              IF recovery fails, chances are you can replace the discrete cells with new ones once identified.

              I recently recovered over 300 lithium cells that sat for many years well below their cutoff voltage. After recovery followed by normal charging about 85% recovered and tested to full capacity when discharged. 64 of those cells have been in daily use on my solar system now for several months and working great. (720AH pack, 48V Nominal) The BMS circuit is mounted on the vertical rear wall but not wired at the time of the pic.
              You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 1 photos.
              1 Photo
              Last edited by Sparky_NY; 12-27-2021, 05:49 AM.

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              • #8
                Id see if you can crack the case open and replace the cell or cells. Might be just common 18650 batteries.
                • Likes 1

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by macona View Post
                  Id see if you can crack the case open and replace the cell or cells. Might be just common 18650 batteries.
                  Excellent chance those would be what is found inside. They seem to be the most common cell used.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Omni Digital Camera Batteries at Batteries Plus Bulbs

                    Omni 2 Digital Camera Battery (batterycanada.com)
                    Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician

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                    • #11
                      Not an 18650, no way. The whole pack is only 45 x 32. It is the FV50 form factor.

                      Originally posted by wmgeorge View Post
                      Omni Digital Camera Batteries at Batteries Plus Bulbs

                      Omni 2 Digital Camera Battery (batterycanada.com)
                      Nope..... not that easy.

                      Those two were my first stop, I had found them the same way you did.......... they popped up on a simple search. Nada. I sent Batterycanada a question about availability because I only saw the 7.4V type, and they asked for a picture because I don't think they believed me about the voltage. They sent back that they had nothing of the sort available and knew of no sources.

                      Batteriesplus, as I mentioned above, did not have it. They only showed two batteries for "Omni", and neither was anything of the sort.

                      EVERY search on FV50 turned up a battery that was the absolute identical size....... and 7.4V

                      MANY MANY such "obvious sources" came up in searches, even finding the 3.7V spec..... universally they turned out to be either an ad for a charger, or the actual battery was listed as 7.4V, and the 3.7V was just off a "catch-all search list" on the site.

                      There was a "maybe" on an ebay ad..... used battery, and I do not do ebay anyhow, no account, never had one.


                      Picture

                      CNC machines only go through the motions.

                      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Here's a solution for a similar problem on another site.

                        https://www.fixya.com/support/t27174..._2009_ef6_hdlm
                        https://www.fixya.com
                        Last edited by RancherBill; 12-27-2021, 12:25 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by macona View Post
                          Id see if you can crack the case open ...
                          This would be a good place for a sub-thread to discuss techniques that eliminate or minimize damage when opening battery cases.

                          While brute force (prying) and cutting tools are obvious approaches, what about ways of using heat, solvent or ?? to debond the adhesive used to join the case sections to one another.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Here's an AliExpress listing for that exact same battery, but it's shown as no longer available. Unusually, there are a couple of pictures of the inside.

                            https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759197810.html


                            Designing a camera to run on an obscure 3.7v battery and one that takes just up as much room as a standard FV50 seems odd.

                            Is it possible that the camera should in fact use an everyday FV50 and has never run with that battery fitted? Perhaps a previous owner bought what appeared to be a very cheap 'compatible' battery, fitted it, found it didn't work and put the camera away in a drawer?

                            Might be worth connecting a bench PSU to the camera to see if it will actually function at all at 3.7V?

                            Cheers

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                            • #15
                              JT,

                              A) Look at whether equivalents to Panasonic VW-VBK180 (3.7V, 1600mAh) and Panasonic VW-VBK360 (3.7V, 4400mAh) batteries have a mounting lug / terminal configuration that is comparable to your FV50 battery.
                              .
                              B) Be aware that sellers have been offering complete used and even new Panasonic Omni2 camcorders for less than $20 + shpg

                              .

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