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OT: Looking for an odd battery for a camcorder

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  • #16
    Instead of looking for a manufacturer's obsolete battery pack, try what several here have already suggested. Break the pack open, find one of these cells: gb/t18287-2000 (the number is on the pack), and order one online. They're all over the place; Amazon, eBay, Alibaba, Walmart, and others.

    Debonding the case with solvent? Maybe, but most high production rate battery packs are joined by ultrasonic welding. Chemical bonding is a thing of the past, or of very low production rates where the cost of U/S tooling can't be justified.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post
      Lithium batteries of various chemistries have BMS circuits somewhere, either inside the actual cells themselves or on a discrete PCB in the pack. One of the functions of the BMS is to open the output circuit if the battery reaches its low cutoff voltage. Good chance that is why you are reading zero volts and it will not take a charge. When the BMS opens, some designs go totally open circuit and the charge voltage never reaches the battery, other circuits will allow charge current into the battery but no current out.

      Best bet is to carefully open the pack up and see what is in there. IF the BMS is a circuit board the cell(s) can be directly charged (recovered is the term) at the actual battery terminals, bypassing the BMS. Recovery is done at a extremely small current, NOT the normal charging current using the OEM charger, you need to use a bench supply. Would need the AH capacity of the cells to suggest a recovery current but think in terms of 5-10ma as a example. Once the cell has recovered to over its cutoff voltage you and then charge normally.

      IF recovery fails, chances are you can replace the discrete cells with new ones once identified.

      I recently recovered over 300 lithium cells that sat for many years well below their cutoff voltage. After recovery followed by normal charging about 85% recovered and tested to full capacity when discharged. 64 of those cells have been in daily use on my solar system now for several months and working great. (720AH pack, 48V Nominal) The BMS circuit is mounted on the vertical rear wall but not wired at the time of the pic.
      The low voltage cut off is there because the cells chemistry is damaged when the voltage goes below a certain threshold. If the cell has been shut down for low voltage, it's less likely to take a full charge or experience a long life.

      Having said that the threshold may have been set somewhat conservatively resulting in an end of life shut off that is somewhat above the actual damage threshold.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by EddyCurr View Post

        B) Be aware that sellers have been offering complete used and even new Panasonic Omni2 camcorders for less than $20 + shpg

        Just what I need, ANOTHER one, ALSO having a bad battery!

        I do not "do ebay", never have.
        CNC machines only go through the motions.

        Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
        Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
        Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
        I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
        Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
          Originally posted by EddyCurr

          B) Be aware that sellers have been offering complete used and even new Panasonic Omni2 camcorders for less than $20 + shpg

          Just what I need, ANOTHER one, ALSO having a bad battery!

          I do not "do ebay", never have.
          "B)" was NOT included to suggest that you acquire another Omni2 through eBay or anywhere else, it was provided to establish a comparative value for the task at hand.

          Market forces declare that a similar or better version of the camcorder is worth <= $20 - weigh this when considering the time and money spent to make the example in your possession operational.

          Comment


          • #20
            OK, makes sense.

            The battery is almost certainly that much. Ultimately the goal is better video than my Canon camera shoots. It has many limits, such as once you set the focus, that's "it", no zoom, no changes at all.

            You folks are talking me into tossing it in the electronic recycling..........

            Originally posted by genea View Post

            The low voltage cut off is there because the cells chemistry is damaged when the voltage goes below a certain threshold. If the cell has been shut down for low voltage, it's less likely to take a full charge or experience a long life.

            Having said that the threshold may have been set somewhat conservatively resulting in an end of life shut off that is somewhat above the actual damage threshold.
            I a pretty sure that once the thing is truly dead, like 5+ years of non-use, it's not coming back. Since this looks unused, it may have been at half charge to begin with, as that is the safest way to ship the explosive little monsters. After "X" number of years, dead is reasonable.

            yep, I like NiCd, and nickel metal hydride batteries.

            They should have come with BMS as well, but that was not done.... first, because they do not burn your house down if abused, and second because if they did have a BMS, people would not run them down to where a pack gets a cell reverse charged, ruining it. Nobody would buy new ones then.

            ********

            The other detail is that someone mentioned "Panasonic Omni2". This does not say "Panasonic" anywhere on it..... Might be a knockoff from china..... may not even have anything in it except a "charging" light, for all I know. It says "charging" with no battery connected. But that does not run the unit.



            Last edited by J Tiers; 12-27-2021, 08:06 PM.
            CNC machines only go through the motions.

            Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
            Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
            Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
            I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
            Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

            Comment


            • #21
              I gave it 3.9V and it lit up the screen. It shut down right after that, I think I caught it just before it checked the battery type/condition. There is a third battery terminal, often used to check battery type and.or condition, which obviously I had nothing connected to.

              battery case is a pain to get into, may not be worth the hassle. Likely to slice into the cell when trying to open it.
              CNC machines only go through the motions.

              Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
              Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
              Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
              I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
              Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

              Comment


              • #22
                Looks like a phone battery?
                Mark

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by boslab View Post
                  Looks like a phone battery?
                  Mark
                  ??????????????????????

                  Seems quite different, although you may be referring to the actual battery inside the case.
                  Last edited by J Tiers; 12-28-2021, 02:28 AM.
                  CNC machines only go through the motions.

                  Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                  Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                  Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                  I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                  Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    I gave it 3.9V and it lit up the screen. It shut down right after that, I think I caught it just before it checked the battery type/condition. There is a third battery terminal, often used to check battery type and.or condition, which obviously I had nothing connected to.

                    battery case is a pain to get into, may not be worth the hassle. Likely to slice into the cell when trying to open it.
                    Jerry, the 3rd terminal is probably a Kelvin connection.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by genea View Post

                      Jerry, the 3rd terminal is probably a Kelvin connection.
                      Could be, I did not connect to it, and had not got around to measuring the battery to see if it is commoned with the plus. Likely the camera will not operate without some connection to it.

                      Might be an output from the BMS also.
                      CNC machines only go through the motions.

                      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Id say the third is a thermistor

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yeah I was thinking of the contents of the package
                          mark

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by macona View Post
                            Id say the third is a thermistor
                            I think so too. Measure the third terminal to either other terminal to check the nominal value and just connect a resistor there. Old batteries didn't use to have their own BMS, just a thermistor to keep a watch on possible trouble.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by EddyCurr View Post
                              JT,

                              A) Look at whether equivalents to Panasonic VW-VBK180 (3.7V, 1600mAh) and Panasonic VW-VBK360 (3.7V, 4400mAh) batteries have a mounting lug / terminal configuration that is comparable to your FV50 battery.
                              .
                              Does anyone besides me think that the VW-VBK180 and VW-VBK360 seem to have a similar mounting lug / terminal configuration ? The Omni2 battery appears to mount externally to the back of the camera body - the VW-VBK180/360 cases do not seem to have the smooth contours of the FV50; but if they fit and work, does that matter much ?

                              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                              Originally posted by genea View Post
                              Instead of looking for a manufacturer's obsolete battery pack, try what several here have already suggested. Break the pack open, ...

                              Debonding the case with solvent? Maybe, but most high production rate battery packs are joined by ultrasonic welding. ...
                              ...

                              battery case is a pain to get into, may not be worth the hassle. Likely to slice into the cell when trying to open it.
                              Mount the battery in the vise on your mill and run around the perimeter of the case with a thin saw mounted on an arbor ???

                              If the depth of cut is less than the case thickness, it will establish a fracture line that ought to contribute to a clean break when parting the shell. If the DOC intrudes into the case and scores the cell; well, it is likely to be a dead player already anyway - NBD.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                On the pack, the third terminal is open to all other terminals. of course, ALL terminals are "open" to all others even on a 20 Megohm range. Not much information there.

                                We have, I believe, arrived at a "screw it, I have other things to do" point. The camera "appeared" to work, but did not actually open a view or a menu, so it must have been "looking for something", or actually non-functional.

                                The battery is dead as a doornail, and the Batterymart parts are still not possible to "know" to be compatible, same as when I found them. They look fairly similar, but "fairly similar" does not warrant 50 bucks just to find out if the following conditions are satisfied: A) the battery fits mechanically, B) it has the correct connections, and C) whether the camera actually works.

                                The camera is apparently not a "panasonic" product, and battery pinout may be different.

                                I'm not that desperate. The old Canon takes video. Unless I find a reason not to between now and then, the "OMNI2" is out in the next electronic recycling event.

                                Thank you.
                                CNC machines only go through the motions.

                                Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                                Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                                Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                                I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                                Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                                Comment

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