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  • #31
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    Since you obviously tested those parts so that you DO know what you are talking about, what was the hardness? What was the yield point of the material? How did that compare to the force a person could exert with the lever arm of the wrench?

    If you cannot provide numbers, then you "expert analysis" of the parts has NO credibility.

    I am at least saying that we do not know any parameters of the material, even from the "silly putty" bending (by a reasonably powerful machine that appears capable of at least several tons pressure).

    4140 PH is bendable. Spring temper steel is bendable also. Proves nothing much.

    You seem sure that it is soft trash. So naturally, you must have tested it. What did you come up with?
    The material bent ON A DIME without breakage --- it's not hard, it may very well be capable of being hardened with a heat treat but as is it's weak for a drive mechanism for sockets --- all sockets (NON IMPACT and good ones) should have a certain level of hardness just to be able to deal with hardened fasteners ALL drive apparatuses Should be at least as hard as the sockets they are driving --- for it is the apparatus itself (if accompanied with a square drive) that will see a usage many times over what a single socket see's as it's driving a multitude of sockets in a set...




    the metal is "cheese" ------- I know it - many on the board who commented previously know it - the only one that does not seem to know it is You....

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    • #32
      I can back up what eKretz says. I work in a Class 8/heavy shop, and it is not a gentle or proper place. Tools fail routinely, and those are tossed on the scrap heap without a blink. Then a better brand is purchased the next day. So far, the best brands for durability are (in no particular order):
      OLD Proto (prior to the Stanley buyout)
      OLD JH Williams (prior to the Snap-On buyout)
      Cornwell
      Mac
      ... and occasionally, Craftsman (for the smaller jobs)

      Notice that some well-known names are not even in consideration, nor are the offshore names.

      Most of the air tools are Ingersoll-Rand D-handle "one-ton guns" with 1" drive and extended anvils.
      Also some Mac, BluePoint, Cornwell, etc air tools.
      The guys are favoring Milwaukee for the rechargeable electric drills and grinders. The shop recently bought a 3/4" dr torque wrench (5 feet long) with a max of 600 ft-lbs, it sees daily use. Some daily tasks require up to 1200 ft-lbs, so we use planetary geared multipliers for that.

      You *need* to use known material with a known heat treat from a known-good supplier who will back up the purchase..... anything less is a waste of time and money. Even in the home shop. It sucks to have to buy the same crap twice, on a home shop budget.

      Originally posted by eKretz View Post

      There is plenty of that going around... How many heavy industrial or automotive shops have you worked in or spent time around? NONE of those guys use tools in a gentle manner like you describe. It just ain't happening. I've seen a 15" adjustable wrench snapped in half and plenty worse. And I don't care what minor work hardening changes take place from cold forming, that's no substitute for a proper heat treatment. Not only in terms of bending strength but also resistance to deformation when they're banged around and used with old worn out sockets and with pipe on the handle. I can guarantee you that nobody in a serious shop would use that thing as you describe. So much faster to just use an extension in hand or a speeder if you don't just use air tools. That tool is the kind of thing you find in the bottom of an old rusty bucket or abandoned in the bottom of a car trunk.
      c
      Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 01-02-2022, 02:33 PM.
      25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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      • #33
        I was watching a couple of other videos from over there and they were actually using those wrenches with a cheater. The wrench did not distort.
        John b. SW Chicago burbs.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by john b View Post
          I was watching a couple of other videos from over there and they were actually using those wrenches with a cheater. The wrench did not distort.
          Can believe that - there's still allot of beef there --- they don't need to be hardened for 95% of work loads, Like I said they would actually be premium to most total junk super soft 30 degree tire changing tools, and at least you can counteract your loosening effort keeping it all about torque transfer and not trying to break the lug off "sideways" while it's stuck...

          but like other guys commented - they would not want one for a serious tool they relied on all the time and in a professional shop the thing would be toast in short order,,, hardness of parts not only increases strength - it helps drastically with wear and durability.....

          the things probably cost two bucks so what do you want... good deal VS sitting on the side of the road with two out of four broken lugs and they happen to be next to each other not 180 opposed (your only real hope of limping it into a station....)

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          • #35
            Thing is you have absolutely no idea of what kind of steel is being used. So your comments are purely guesswork.
            John b. SW Chicago burbs.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by john b View Post
              Thing is you have absolutely no idea of what kind of steel is being used. So your comments are purely guesswork.
              No --- absolutely not guessing --- does not matter what kinda steel - question was is if they were hardened and In comparison to a high quality half inch breaker bar the tools steel is very soft - it's not as strong,,, I can tell you that for a fact because there's no way you could load that high quality breaker bar into that 90 degree bender and not have it snap instantly --- or more than likely stall out the machine,,, therefor - the tool in the video is of weaker structure and will not take as much torsion before it fails and just bends --- it will also wear far faster --- trust me their not using some kinda magical high dollar steel thats surpasses what tool steel is capable of and surpasses it in it's annealed state,,,

              iv dealt with stuff like this all my life - and there's a purpose for cheap tools, I have some, but yeah by watching the vid I can tell you allot about the steel... or at least the hardening, any heat treating that I missed after the bending machine? did you see the "wrenches" going into the plastic packs to be sold? they were not putting them in there to send off to be heat treated for one their detent springs would not work after that...

              the wrenches are not hardened - they may have some hardness - but they fall way short in comparison to a professional wrench of any kind...

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              • #37
                FWIW, we really don’t know what market or end user application these might be for. I’m sure everyone here has bought something that has included the cheap wrench, screwdriver, or hex key for assembly. I’ve also had included “tool kits” that came with things. Motorcycles, atv, generators. None of it was anything to write home about.

                I don’t know if that’s what these wrenches in the video are for but it’s possible.

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                • #38
                  Forget the tool quality. You are watching child labor and they are being poisoned while doing it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
                    Another self-serving shill for Youtube.
                    Self-serving? You mean vectorwarbirds is "The Mechanic"? Or does he benefit in some other way?

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                    • #40
                      Yeah, not sure what they are plating with, but none of it is anything I'd want to be sticking my hands in all day. And with that load of rod, they are gonna be busy for a while.

                      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                      The material bent ON A DIME without breakage --- it's not hard, it may very well be capable of being hardened with a heat treat but as is it's weak for a drive mechanism for sockets ............................
                      the metal is "cheese" ------- I know it - many on the board who commented previously know it - the only one that does not seem to know it is You....
                      So...... you and your companions, if there are any, all KNOW FOR A FACT that it is "cheese", which I suppose is, to you, a technical description.

                      When you wer there, during the "filming", did you ask any questions? Did you bring your own test instruments, or rely on what they had in that shop?

                      What did their customer want?

                      What was the diameter of the material? What was the radius of bending?

                      What?

                      You were NOT there? You cannot answer those questions?


                      Oh, so you actually have no idea. You are guessing, because that is Pakistan, and so you say, and stick to it, that you already know the steel is "cheese" on account of it being in Pakistan. Well that's what we expected.

                      There is a name for that, but we'll skip over it.

                      FACT: You have no idea how hard that material is, except that it cannot be much if any harder than a spring temper, because it bent. It's all your guessing.

                      Now, the SMART people in the room know that they do not know the alloy, or the treatment of that steel. They know that there is no information given, past the fact that the steel can be cut and bent using fairly powerful machinery.

                      They do not KNOW for a fact (as you claim to) that the wrench will twist up like a pretzel if anyone tries to use it. It's possible, but less likely since it is a short wrench.

                      The SMART people know that the rest of the process gives little confidence, but that they cannot, from what is presented, know for a "fact" that the metal is soft cheese.

                      You are the only one who will not admit that you do not and cannot "know" that for a fact.

                      Not worth the electrons to read what you are writing here.
                      Last edited by J Tiers; 01-02-2022, 05:05 PM.
                      4357 2773 5150 9120 9135 8645 1007 1190 2133 9120 5942

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Everything not impossible is compulsory

                      "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post



                        FACT: You have no idea how hard that material is, except that it cannot be much if any harder than a spring temper, because it bent. It's all your guessing.

                        .
                        No Einstein ,,, it's because its about 3/4" AND BENT ON A DIME !!!

                        and stop bringing up spring steel - would not even have to be nowhere close, it's "cheese" metal - maybe could take a hardening - but it sure hasn't...

                        Iv broke plenty of wrenches - sockets - extensions and also turned the softer stuff into pretzels ------- the stuff in the video is the latter - deal with it....


                        that's not some kinda guess - that's a fact - for "drive wrench material" it is like the others say - NOT HARDENED.....

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                        • #42
                          I thought it was obvious that these are special safety tools designed to protect knuckleheads who always use a cheater bar**. In the case of these tools when overloaded they bend in a gentle mode rather than more frangible tools that may be hard and break with a dangerous 'snap' sending the user to the floor.

                          **"Iv broke plenty of wrenches - sockets - extensions "

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rickyb View Post
                            Forget the tool quality. You are watching child labor and they are being poisoned while doing it.
                            And not much different than the USA at one point. We have moved past this, time will tell if they do as well.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by The Artful Bodger View Post
                              I thought it was obvious that these are special safety tools designed to protect knuckleheads who always use a cheater bar**. In the case of these tools when overloaded they bend in a gentle mode rather than more frangible tools that may be hard and break with a dangerous 'snap' sending the user to the floor.

                              **"Iv broke plenty of wrenches - sockets - extensions "

                              Don't portray someone as somebody who has to use your methods,,, if ever you actually worked for a living you would know that you don't have to use cheater bars to break stuff,

                              But you do need very high strength materials so you can get the maximum out of the tools you work with and they can't be all over built and clunky from weak materials or they will be useless because they simply won't fit into places --- guess what the answer is "boy"?,,,
                              that's right - high quality and hardening....
                              and yup sometimes they do go boom --- no big whoop --- what also comes with experience (and pretty much anyone right out of the womb) is to not be such a dim bulb and always brace yourself for failure, but you will probably never even need to worry about that so just keep livin the dream lol


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                              • #45
                                Oh dear! Now I feel so intimidated!

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