School me on using annular cutters in my milling machine

[true temper]

You really don’t need 3 collets 1 will probably work. I was always afraid the annular cutters would slip on a collet, I had an extra Weldon end mill holder but it was too long the cutter wouldn’t go in far enough to reach the set screw.
I put the holder in the mill and used a brazed carbide lathe tool and faced the end off of the holder.
you can also buy a dedicated R8 annular cutter holder, but I already had the end mill holder.

[JRouche]

School me on using annular cutters in my milling machine


I would not do it, I have tried, I have great cutterts, And machine (S), ..

Naw, Only in the mag drill forr the core drills. JR

Umm? I didnt say anything about coring some ones safe out this week, Big hole, small damage I guesss,

[Beazld]

You can also take an old sponge and cut a piece to fit inside the cutter and soak it in cutting fluid. As you cut deeper it squeezes out more juice.

[JoeLee]

the cloth adds a dampening effect, the added lube is just a bonus. The lube gets thrown out of the kerf fast enough.

Works for c'sinks and c'bores too.

This is the only time I have had any issues with chatter. The squealing is deafening, have to wear hearing protection.
At first I thought it was due to mounting the hole saw arbor in a chuck so I made a direct mount arbor to a 3/4" collet. It helped some but it still takes an awful lot of downward force to cut. I'm guessing too much tooth engagement.
For my next test I'm going to dust the tips off of some of the teeth so only 4 will do the cutting. I wonder if the same situation exists with the annular cutters. These precision hole cutters are the closest thing I have to annular cutters.

I even went as far a running the mill off of a VFD so I could run the R's down to about 30 and I still get chatter.

JL.............

[Toolguy]

An annular cutter is quite a different animal than that one.

[Doozer]

Don't use a 3/4" collet, It will slip.
Use an end mill holder, shorten it
to make the set screw line up with
the Weldon flat on the cutter.
If it is chattering, you are running
the RPM too fast and/or not using
enough feed pressure. I have an
1-1/2" annular cutter that I use on
my BP M-head. With the belt on
the lowest pulley and my VFD
turned down low enough and still
have enough torque, it is a tricky
balance to make it feed and cut
without chatter. I have had my best
results locking the quill and feeding
with the knee. If I had been using
a BP J-head, it has a backgear and
making it cut would be much easier.
In a milling machine, forget about the
center pin. That is just for centering
your magnetic base drill.

--Doozer

[Stepside]

Joe Lee I thinkk the cutter you are using is meant for thin material. I have a good selection of annular cutters and have never had on squeel or chatter. Haugen makes some small cutters 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch with a maximum depth of 1/4 inch. They come as a set with arbors designed to use with a drill chuck. I used a 5/16 one yesterday to put some holes in 1/8 inch Copper and 1/4 inch 6061 Aluminum. In both cases jus a drop of A9 cutting fluid and it cut perfect sized burr free holes.

[JoeLee]

Joe Lee I thinkk the cutter you are using is meant for thin material. I have a good selection of annular cutters and have never had on squeel or chatter. Haugen makes some small cutters 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch with a maximum depth of 1/4 inch. They come as a set with arbors designed to use with a drill chuck. I used a 5/16 one yesterday to put some holes in 1/8 inch Copper and 1/4 inch 6061 Aluminum. In both cases jus a drop of A9 cutting fluid and it cut perfect sized burr free holes.

That is a Haugen / Blair cutter and max depth is about 1/4"
I'm cutting 11 ga. about .100. The only arbor they have for those cutters is a 3/8" shank meant for drill chucks. I improvised. They cut perfect holes and are dead on in size.

JL................

[DR]

Annular cutter don't have a true Weldon shank. It's sort of like a Weldon though. I wonder why they were designed that way.

I've used them in production runs. For the best results a coolant inducer feeding through the center of the cutter and flooding the cutter's interior is best. That way the cutter barely even gets warm.

I have yet to send any out for sharpening. We might be able to do it ourselves on the T&C grinder I just haven't looked that closely at the tooth geometry.

Most of mine are name brand. I got some off shore versions from KBC at about 1/3 the price. They didn't last long using the same cutting feeds/speeds as the real thing. KBC replaced the broken ones free of charge and slowed everything down a bit to use them.

I certainly would not use them in a drill press or small mill unless the machines were very rigid. It doesn't take much to break the larger ones. I also don't know whether a draw in collet like an R8 would grip well enough on the cutter's shorter-than-Weldon shank.

[Stepside]

DR

I have used some cutters under 1-1/2" with an R8 and had some success. But it made me a bit nervous so I had a "Weldon" type R8 3/4 inch end mill holder shortened so the set screw would hit in the right place. It works a lot better.

[oxford]

Annular cutter don't have a true Weldon shank. It's sort of like a Weldon though. I wonder why they were designed that way………………….: I also don't know whether a draw in collet like an R8 would grip well enough on the cutter's shorter-than-Weldon shank.

My wild guess on the shank length is packaging size as these are very popular for mag drills and may have been developed for them.

I have ran annulars in a standard r8 collet and also ER collets and never had a problem. The cutters were probably all 1.5” and under, larger ones could be a problem.

[CalM]

This is the only time I have had any issues with chatter. The squealing is deafening, have to wear hearing protection.
At first I thought it was due to mounting the hole saw arbor in a chuck so I made a direct mount arbor to a 3/4" collet. It helped some but it still takes an awful lot of downward force to cut. I'm guessing too much tooth engagement.
For my next test I'm going to dust the tips off of some of the teeth so only 4 will do the cutting. I wonder if the same situation exists with the annular cutters. These precision hole cutters are the closest thing I have to annular cutters.

I even went as far a running the mill off of a VFD so I could run the R's down to about 30 and I still get chatter.

JL.............

Reducing some of the edges engaged in the work might be a solution. Before I knocked teeth back completely, (> .003 ") I might just take a hand stone to a few teeth and try to end up with alternate top bevel, or even a triple chip outcome. Right cut, Left cut , Center cut, repeat all the way around. Assuming all the cutting edges are keen to the edges and nothing is rubbing.

[DR]

I have quite a few of the type cutters Joe showed. Probable all surplused from Boeing.



They use a screw on shank, invariably the shanks have been chewed up from slipping in drill chucks. I've never had much luck using them in metal, the teeth don't seem to bite into metal. And they screech on metal as Joe said. The chewed up shanks make me think usage in hand drill on non-metallic materials.

[sarge41]

I never heard of that trick before but I'll give it a try. I don't think squeal is about lubrication, it's more about rigidity.



JL.......

The first time that I witnessed it, one of my coworkers, who previously had spent a lot of time in a shop that did a lot of large mining work, was c'sinking some large holes. It was a job that several of us had problems with,( chatter). He was not having any problems, so we went to check him out. he would fold a rag into about four plys and lay it under the c'sink before starting the cut (dry) and wasn't having any problems. Cut was very smooth. Lesson learned.

Sarge41

[JoeLee]

I have quite a few of the type cutters Joe showed. Probable all surplused from Boeing.



They use a screw on shank, invariably the shanks have been chewed up from slipping in drill chucks. I've never had much luck using them in metal, the teeth don't seem to bite into metal. And they screech on metal as Joe said. The chewed up shanks make me think usage in hand drill on non-metallic materials.

This was originally what the arbor looked like. 3/8" with flats obviously meant for use in a chuck / hand drill.

I thought that having a small dia. shank and all that hanging out of a chuck was causing too much deflection causing the squeal / chatter. Directly mounting in a 3/4" collet did help some but still some deafening squeal.

They require a lot of downward force in the mill and take too long to cut. I'm thinking too many teeth. Now if you were using it in a hand drill you could rock the drill from side to side slightly or in a circular motion to allow cutting with one side of the cutter, but all the teeth trying to cut at once requires more downward force.
They do cut a perfect hole though.

The cutter thread is a 4 start, never had one slip and they center up perfectly every time.

JL.................