Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Combination Lathe/Mill Upgrades and improvements

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    David, Welcome Aboard. Be sure to keep your mental lifejacket ready at hand since some of the threads can get a little rough as you're seeing....

    I went through the same issue with tool posts over the past 10'ish years. I've got a much bigger and heavier lathe than yours in the form of a typical Asian 12x36 size machine. But it was made with a rather paltry 1.19 inch height from the top of the compound to the spindle axis. And in the end this is the key figure as you're learning.

    I originally got a BXA piston style post on sale at a price I thought I couldn't turn down. I should have. The holders sat very low and the piston was pushing the dovetail high on the holders to where part of the piston was showing. This led to poor support and more chatter than I should have had. I used a couple of carbide tools to shave the base of the post by around 1/4 inch which helped a lot. But it still wasn't great. And I also found that visually the post seemed to be more in my line of sight than I liked.

    I fooled around with a few home made options and finally about a year I had a chance to try out a friend's AXA size post for a week. It was a great fit and the smaller size was not overwhelmed on the size of my lathe for loading the tools. So I splurged on my own AXA wedge style from Accusize. I've been extremely happy with it and have committed to it strongly by buying a bunch of holders and plan on making some of my own specialty holders over the next while.

    But as mentioned it's all about the compound to spindle axis.... with a supporting role from the biggest tool size you need to hold. Here is a couple of pictures for you to consider for how an AXA or perhaps 0XA might work for you. Keeping in mind my own 1.19" working height.

    First shot is a 1/2" tool with a carbide insert. The gap below the holder is 0.23". The holder is forced to sit lower by the size of the tool.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040437.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	115.3 KB
ID:	1985600

    Next is a holder with a 3/8" tool. The height below the holder is 0.39. So the holder has to sit up a touch due to the smaller tool. But it puts the holder pretty well at mid height on the main post's body and wedge. It was this "fit" that sold me on the idea of the AXA being the right post for the compound to axis dimension I had to work with. Never mind the lathe size itself.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040438.jpg
Views:	193
Size:	118.1 KB
ID:	1985601

    And finally a shot showing the boring bar holder which sits at 0.43" off the top of the compound and just a little above the center height of the post.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040439.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	118.0 KB
ID:	1985602

    Not shown is that I can also use 5/16 and even 1/4 inch HSS tools for any special formed cutters without the need for any shims to avoid the top of the holder from being over the top of the post. Although at that point the holder is so high on the post that I'd shove a 1/8 shim under the cutter just to get the holder to rest back to the middle height range of the post anyway.

    This is also more than just about the cutting tool shank sizes too. The holders change dimension as well. So when you figure this all out you'll need to consider that as well. But you might see that if you're working with something close to the same 1.19" that I've got then an AXA would be a good fit. I'd say that there's probably a plus or minus 0.1" range of difference where the AXA would be a good fit. If your setup is shorter for this spacing then it might call for a 0XA. Which would be fine actually. For your size of machine 3/8" shank tools would be pretty burly and I'd likely use mostly 5/16 blanks if using HSS. Or rather for all the HSS cutters you will make for special shapes and likely for your threading tool. And for any carbide insert tooling there's the 3/8 or 10mm size options.

    You mentioned Accusize as the brand you're considering. I was very pleasantly surprised by the fit and finish of mine. One thing that was a touch sub par was the top washer for the hold down bolt which was shaped such that swarf rested on it and it left a joint which could have allowed the swarf to get down into the works. The spiffy conical heavy "washer" on top and just under the wrench was my answer to that. It neatly deflects the swarf and it gives the tool post a slightly "Dallek" look!

    A common gripe about the lower cost import tool holders is the sloppy fit of the hex key into the set screws for holding the cutters. But I've not had any trouble with them in reality other than it actually makes it really easy to get the key into the screws. And perhaps the play makes them less sticky when they are partially filled with swarf.

    Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you do to improve your all in one and the work you make with it.
    Chilliwack BC, Canada

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by David Powell View Post
      Doozer is an interesting and very able fellow, but sometimes he gets up on the wrong side of the bed !!! Regards David Powell
      Sometimes?......
      Chilliwack BC, Canada

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by oxford View Post

        Second off, don’t mind Doozer he’s pretty much one of the resident dicks on the forum although he can offer some decent advise if you can sift through vagueness and self entitlement.
        Never heard of him. He must be new.

        Comment


        • #19
          I said Maybe as my fall back disclaimer.
          You might be perfectly well adjusted.
          Maybe better than myself

          My dad's size of the family is from Otter Lake
          which is north of Ottawa. Most of my life spent
          in Buffalo, listening to radio stations in Toronto.

          -Doozer
          DZER

          Comment


          • #20
            I am a little late getting in here. Been busy this morning. I have the Craftex equivalent of that machine. It appears to be identical. I think it is going on 15 years old now and I have made a number of improvements and changes along the way. I have an AXA tool post and it is plenty large enough for that machine. I had to make a custom base plate to get the vertical height correct. The chuck is mounted high on these machines to accommodate the mill vise and cross slide. I find the vise acceptable as long as you keep it closed tightly when working on the lathe except when you need to use compound feed. I hardly ever use the mill any more as a few years ago I bought a larger more solid mill. The little one worked well for a while as long as you didn't try a push it. If you are interested I could give you more details on just what I have done to this machine a little later.
            Larry - west coast of Canada

            Comment


            • #21
              David- what types of things do you want to make?
              Models? Repairs? Widgets?

              Sid

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by David T View Post
                Hello All;


                The reason for my post is I would like to add a Quick Change Tool Post and am wondering if anyone else has one and has replaced the tool post. With a 16: swing, the manufacturer recommends a CXA tool post which seems too large for me. I also want to add a better vice for milling.

                Any suggestions and comments are very much appreciated.
                Hey David, Welcome. I like the machine, versatile.

                What is the distance from the top of the compound to the centerline of the spindle? That might be a determining factor. Fun times ahead. JR

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                  David, Welcome Aboard. Be sure to keep your mental lifejacket ready at hand since some of the threads can get a little rough as you're seeing....

                  I went through the same issue with tool posts over the past 10'ish years. I've got a much bigger and heavier lathe than yours in the form of a typical Asian 12x36 size machine. But it was made with a rather paltry 1.19 inch height from the top of the compound to the spindle axis. And in the end this is the key figure as you're learning.

                  I originally got a BXA piston style post on sale at a price I thought I couldn't turn down. I should have. The holders sat very low and the piston was pushing the dovetail high on the holders to where part of the piston was showing. This led to poor support and more chatter than I should have had. I used a couple of carbide tools to shave the base of the post by around 1/4 inch which helped a lot. But it still wasn't great. And I also found that visually the post seemed to be more in my line of sight than I liked.

                  I fooled around with a few home made options and finally about a year I had a chance to try out a friend's AXA size post for a week. It was a great fit and the smaller size was not overwhelmed on the size of my lathe for loading the tools. So I splurged on my own AXA wedge style from Accusize. I've been extremely happy with it and have committed to it strongly by buying a bunch of holders and plan on making some of my own specialty holders over the next while.

                  But as mentioned it's all about the compound to spindle axis.... with a supporting role from the biggest tool size you need to hold. Here is a couple of pictures for you to consider for how an AXA or perhaps 0XA might work for you. Keeping in mind my own 1.19" working height.

                  First shot is a 1/2" tool with a carbide insert. The gap below the holder is 0.23". The holder is forced to sit lower by the size of the tool.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040437.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	115.3 KB
ID:	1985600

                  Next is a holder with a 3/8" tool. The height below the holder is 0.39. So the holder has to sit up a touch due to the smaller tool. But it puts the holder pretty well at mid height on the main post's body and wedge. It was this "fit" that sold me on the idea of the AXA being the right post for the compound to axis dimension I had to work with. Never mind the lathe size itself.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040438.jpg
Views:	193
Size:	118.1 KB
ID:	1985601

                  And finally a shot showing the boring bar holder which sits at 0.43" off the top of the compound and just a little above the center height of the post.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040439.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	118.0 KB
ID:	1985602

                  Not shown is that I can also use 5/16 and even 1/4 inch HSS tools for any special formed cutters without the need for any shims to avoid the top of the holder from being over the top of the post. Although at that point the holder is so high on the post that I'd shove a 1/8 shim under the cutter just to get the holder to rest back to the middle height range of the post anyway.

                  This is also more than just about the cutting tool shank sizes too. The holders change dimension as well. So when you figure this all out you'll need to consider that as well. But you might see that if you're working with something close to the same 1.19" that I've got then an AXA would be a good fit. I'd say that there's probably a plus or minus 0.1" range of difference where the AXA would be a good fit. If your setup is shorter for this spacing then it might call for a 0XA. Which would be fine actually. For your size of machine 3/8" shank tools would be pretty burly and I'd likely use mostly 5/16 blanks if using HSS. Or rather for all the HSS cutters you will make for special shapes and likely for your threading tool. And for any carbide insert tooling there's the 3/8 or 10mm size options.

                  You mentioned Accusize as the brand you're considering. I was very pleasantly surprised by the fit and finish of mine. One thing that was a touch sub par was the top washer for the hold down bolt which was shaped such that swarf rested on it and it left a joint which could have allowed the swarf to get down into the works. The spiffy conical heavy "washer" on top and just under the wrench was my answer to that. It neatly deflects the swarf and it gives the tool post a slightly "Dallek" look!

                  A common gripe about the lower cost import tool holders is the sloppy fit of the hex key into the set screws for holding the cutters. But I've not had any trouble with them in reality other than it actually makes it really easy to get the key into the screws. And perhaps the play makes them less sticky when they are partially filled with swarf.

                  Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you do to improve your all in one and the work you make with it.
                  Wow, I cannot believe the amount of excellent information you all have provided.

                  The actual distance from the top of the cross slide and the center of the lathe is 2.3", so a riser will be required. I think I am going with the AXA as many have suggested. I have only started to collect tooling so I can tailor my purchases accordingly.

                  Thanks again to all.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by sid pileski View Post
                    David- what types of things do you want to make?
                    Models? Repairs? Widgets?

                    Sid
                    Sid;

                    I just wanted the ability to make my own parts as needed. The very first project was to completely remake a brand new shop crane. Made all new pins to much closer tolerances and the thing is amazing in comparison from out of the box. The sky is the limit. Waiting on the delivery of a Kubota TLB and I have many many projects to make for it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                      I said Maybe as my fall back disclaimer.
                      You might be perfectly well adjusted.
                      Maybe better than myself

                      My dad's size of the family is from Otter Lake
                      which is north of Ottawa. Most of my life spent
                      in Buffalo, listening to radio stations in Toronto.

                      -Doozer
                      Doozer, as my late and very dear friend and work colleague, used to say "I'm all right, the world is all wrong" Words I live by to this day.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cuttings View Post
                        I am a little late getting in here. Been busy this morning. I have the Craftex equivalent of that machine. It appears to be identical. I think it is going on 15 years old now and I have made a number of improvements and changes along the way. I have an AXA tool post and it is plenty large enough for that machine. I had to make a custom base plate to get the vertical height correct. The chuck is mounted high on these machines to accommodate the mill vise and cross slide. I find the vise acceptable as long as you keep it closed tightly when working on the lathe except when you need to use compound feed. I hardly ever use the mill any more as a few years ago I bought a larger more solid mill. The little one worked well for a while as long as you didn't try a push it. If you are interested I could give you more details on just what I have done to this machine a little later.
                        I would love to see and hear about what you have done. Looking forward to it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by David T View Post

                          Wow, I cannot believe the amount of excellent information you all have provided.

                          The actual distance from the top of the cross slide and the center of the lathe is 2.3", so a riser will be required. I think I am going with the AXA as many have suggested. I have only started to collect tooling so I can tailor my purchases accordingly.

                          Thanks again to all.
                          You're welcome! At 2.3" you'll certainly need a riser! ! ! ! Otherwise you'd be looking at a big lump of a CXA post perched up there ! !

                          If you're making pins for stuff like that and can make anything near to 20 thou depth of cuts (.04 off the diameter) on that sort of size material and not have it chatter and dance all over your shop then I'd rate that as one of the nicer small machines.

                          Chilliwack BC, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                            ...
                            How about this, maybe you believe what
                            fits your personal view of the world.
                            ...
                            Maybe you do.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by David T View Post

                              Wow, I cannot believe the amount of excellent information you all have provided.

                              The actual distance from the top of the cross slide and the center of the lathe is 2.3", so a riser will be required. I think I am going with the AXA as many have suggested. I have only started to collect tooling so I can tailor my purchases accordingly.

                              Thanks again to all.
                              Yeah, great info. The folks here are top notch. Umm, cross slide and or top slide are not a compound slide, I think. . Wee bit diff. Make sure. Go off the Compound slide top.. JR

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I have an older clone of that machine, 1 hp lathe motor. I use 1/4 hs tools as that is about all it will handle and they are easy to grind. I have machined 17 " dia on mine, but what a joke. Very pointy tool,.005 doc, and slowest rpm. You will soon learn your limitations.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X