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OFF TOPIC? $75,000 pickup cost per mile?

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  • Originally posted by The Artful Bodger View Post

    So, on the one hand we might have someone who drives a Mighty Boy because he thinks he could not handle an F450 and on the other hand we have someone who cannot handle a Mighty Boy so he drives a Dodge Mega Ram!
    Quite right ! ! ! LOL
    And both are problems in the brain !
    Brilliant !


    -Doozer
    DZER

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Willy View Post
      I've pulled a lot of "B" train doubles and it does take a bit of finesse to back them up and some guys never get it. Kind of like pushing a pig by the tail initially until you learn.
      I don't believe they are allowed, viably at least, in most US states without being severely penalized due to weight restrictions as they gross out at 140,000 lbs.
      I know they are legal in Canada, Washington state and Michigan but I believe that's it for the lower 48.

      Anyway a link to a short video below from Can. showing a guy that knows his stuff. He does a very nice job without wasting any moves, and from his blind side to boot!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KCNZE2DSQ8

      We have Super B Grain Trailer Rig on the Farm and I’ve never got good at backing them up.I do know some and have seen them Back them up and in Awe of their talent.I never personally seen it but heard stories of a fellow that could backup a A Train.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

        I'm calling BS on this. The 60's vehicles (and 70's) hat I have owned went considerably farther than 100k and lasted an average of 17 years. This is in the Rust Belt. Brake adjustments only happened when you got a brake job, headlight adjustments were done by the manufacturer or dealer before you bought it, and a tune-up for $8 every year was trivially easy to do.

        Oil every 3500 miles was and still is good sense. Oil 1x a year is a great way to kill the vehicle despite manufacturers claims, ask any mechanic. People are getting soft nowadays, is the problem.

        IMHO the only real improvement since then has been electronic ignition. Everything else has been cheapened into disposable and unrepairable crap. It does me no favors to keep piling unwanted "features" on top of overpriced stamped-tin garbage like they do nowadays. It sure makes the car companies rich, though.

        I've had to buy a new car every 6 or 7 years lately because you can't fix the damn things any more, they rust out in that time frame, and you can't afford to have the dealer or the body shop do it. And that is BS. My last "old" car (1970 chevy) had ~200K on the clock when I finally sold it in 1998. A local drag racer bought it.
        Feel free to stand high on your soap box and yell BS at the top of your lungs. It doesn't change anything. Of course some 1960's vehicles had a long life. My fully restored 1964 vette is proof of it. However the exception does not make the rule, the fact is that vehicle warranties back then were 12 months/12,000 miles for a reason, cars and light trucks were not nearly as reliable or long lasting as today's vehicles and the average person then felt that by 100,000 miles, a vehicle was worn out. If you are willing to throw money at a daily driver you can keep it on the road forever, that does not mean it makes economic sense. This is especially true if you are not someone who works on cars. The vast majority of people (95% ?) don't work on cars and don't want to pay a lot of repair money for the privilege of driving an unreliable old junker. Of course if you lived in a northern state, in 5-10 years the salt turned your car into a rusty mess as there was no corrosion coating on the old cars except the high priced dealer under coating which often made things worse. Therefore, half the cars in the US were rusted out by 8 years/100k miles, making my point. Your example of recently needing to buy a new car every 6 to 7 years reinforces my case as these newer cars are far better than the cars in the 1960's.

        However, I have found just the opposite as you in owning a stream of "modern" cars from 1990's - 2017 that I all bought brand new. Armed with a code reader I have successfully fixed the few things that failed on those recent cars. I still sold them at around 100,000 miles each for boredom and cosmetic reasons, but I got very good money for them and the buyers likely got another 100k miles from them. Unfortunately my days of fixing things with a code reader are now limited. My current 2018 Navigator has something like 12 separate micro computers that all talk to each other. Without a $3,000+ diagnostic tool I will not be able to trouble shoot properly. Even if I can isolate the problem and install the new part, I may not be able to program the new part to actually work with those micro computers.

        Those old 1960's cars had drum brakes and the automatic adjusters did not always work especially when rusted by salt. Therefore, manually tightening the adjusters greatly improved pedal feel and brake performance. Especially in states with annual inspections, headlight and brake adjustments were often required to legally drive.

        As for your baseless claims on the 3,500 mile oil change schedule, that is truly an actual dead nuts BS claim. You throw this out with no facts or testing to back it up. Just because some dumb ass mechanic with a 12th grade education told you that, doesn't make it so. If you believe that is correct then what you are saying is that the OEM's highly trained engineers who do controlled test after test, including testing to engine destruction, are wrong, even though their firms warranty those engines for 36,000, 50,000 and sometimes even 100,000 miles on the drive train.

        Like I ask the high school drop out grease monkeys at Jiffy Lube, why would I think you know more than the highly trained engineers who designed and warranty this engine???? Somehow I think those engineers know more about necessary oil change schedules for their engines than you and the grease monkeys.

        Comment


        • I am with you on that call, except I still try to get 15 or more years from a vehicle. Yes, I have always had 15, 20, or more years from the vehicles I bought, mostly used. My first was a Ford Falcon in the early 60s.

          My oldest today is a 2000, GMC Sierra. About 125,000 miles and the engine and transmission are still going strong. I bought it second hand from my mechanic's shop in Iowa, whom I trusted. He was expanding into used vehicles. Story was the first owner was the local dealer's body shop manager. Even in Iowa, with all the road salt, where it spent it's first ten years, it did not rust a single bit. So, the body shops CAN rust proof them.

          It has had some body work, mostly paid for by insurance after fender-benders. The roof of the cab currently needs a fresh paint job and, after 22 years, it does have a scratch or two but nothing that will rust. Not heavy on all the electronics, I guess 2000 was just a bit before all that.

          My second vehicle is a 2004 GMC Envoy which I also bought used 2 or 3 of years ago. It also has no rust and I checked for body work before I bought it and saw none that was reported. Biggest problem is the low beam headlights which are unreliable: sometimes they worn and other times they do not. Dealer says I need a $900 module and my mechanic, whom I trust a lot more than the dealer, says that is also his best guess. But I suspect they are both guessing. I do not drive it much and am slowly looking for a way to actually prove where the problem is before I shell out $900 - probably more now. I hope that I can actually KNOW what is wrong before proceeding, instead of just someone's "best guess". It had a few other problems that have been resolved or very much minimized.

          As far as basic transportation, both of these are reliable and quite nice looking.

          Anyway, my point is that at least some, more modern vehicles (up to 2000) can be maintained in good order and even after that point (2004), you can at least try.



          Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
          I'm calling BS on this. The 60's vehicles (and 70's) hat I have owned went considerably farther than 100k and lasted an average of 17 years. This is in the Rust Belt. Brake adjustments only happened when you got a brake job, headlight adjustments were done by the manufacturer or dealer before you bought it, and a tune-up for $8 every year was trivially easy to do.

          Oil every 3500 miles was and still is good sense. Oil 1x a year is a great way to kill the vehicle despite manufacturers claims, ask any mechanic. People are getting soft nowadays, is the problem.

          IMHO the only real improvement since then has been electronic ignition. Everything else has been cheapened into disposable and unrepairable crap. It does me no favors to keep piling unwanted "features" on top of overpriced stamped-tin garbage like they do nowadays. It sure makes the car companies rich, though.

          I've had to buy a new car every 6 or 7 years lately because you can't fix the damn things any more, they rust out in that time frame, and you can't afford to have the dealer or the body shop do it. And that is BS. My last "old" car (1970 chevy) had ~200K on the clock when I finally sold it in 1998. A local drag racer bought it.
          Paul A.
          SE Texas

          And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
          You will find that it has discrete steps.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Doozer View Post

            Gotta have a man-gina to drive one of those.

            -D
            Just an aside, I saw an article a couple weeks back, about Dick's Sporting Goods new policy of not selling guns or ammo anymore. The first comment on the page said, "You better change the name of your store to Vagina's."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tundra Twin Track View Post


              We have Super B Grain Trailer Rig on the Farm and I’ve never got good at backing them up.I do know some and have seen them Back them up and in Awe of their talent.I never personally seen it but heard stories of a fellow that could backup a A Train.
              Backing up the "A" train doubles is certainly where the term pushing a pig by the tail came from. Another example of bringing one too many joints to the party.

              I can certainly sympathize with those that miss the old iron as I too long for those more simple times when maintaining a vehicle was far more simple than today.
              I must admit though that those old vehicles did require more maintenance than those of the last twenty years or so. The fact that it was usually a simple and inexpensive procedure has made the memory a fond one.

              I have on numerous occasions been out in the woods ether before cell phones or simply out of cell phone range and had to do some rudimentary roadside repairs on old iron and I was always able to get home with nothing more than some basic tools.
              When an electronic module takes a nap or doesn't receive a signal for any number of reasons, you are dead in the water, been there too. Long walks in the woods at night are not something one soon forgets.

              However the newer crop of vehicles when all is well,​ will usually last many more miles, have more power and get much better fuel mileage while doing so.
              Thanks to emissions legislation requirements engine component metallurgy, tolerances, and design efficiency have literally improved ten fold. All of this has placed new demands on lubricants as well and these products have also met the demands placed upon them. These products although similar in appearance are vastly superior to anything from the 20th century.

              However with a new round of ever tightening emission requirements every few years the technology and the hardware to support it have simply not had the time to mature and maintain long term reliability under harsh conditions in my experience. When something does go wrong nothing short of a full set of OEM diagnostic equipment will set it all right again.
              Not a lot of fun sitting on the side of the highway whether in a car or a large truck and it has defaulted to limp home mode at 5 MPH because of a regen error code that cannot be bypassed temporarily.
              I think it is issues like this last point that has left a bad taste in a lot of mouths.
              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

              Location: British Columbia

              Comment


              • New vehicle often will last longer than old ones. The manufacturing has changed, with finer finish on cylinders, etc, removing the "break-in" period that used to be required, but which many customers ignored. Longer engine life is a side effect of that.

                Originally posted by Superbowl View Post
                ............................

                As for your baseless claims on the 3,500 mile oil change schedule, that is truly an actual dead nuts BS claim. You throw this out with no facts or testing to back it up. Just because some dumb ass mechanic with a 12th grade education told you that, doesn't make it so. If you believe that is correct then what you are saying is that the OEM's highly trained engineers who do controlled test after test, including testing to engine destruction, are wrong, even though their firms warranty those engines for 36,000, 50,000 and sometimes even 100,000 miles on the drive train.

                Like I ask the high school drop out grease monkeys at Jiffy Lube, why would I think you know more than the highly trained engineers who designed and warranty this engine???? Somehow I think those engineers know more about necessary oil change schedules for their engines than you and the grease monkeys.
                Yes, the engineers may be wrong.... Why?

                Because THEY do NOT make the call.

                The truth of the matter is much more likely that the marketing folks demand the longest oil change interval possible, because oil changes are expensive and annoy the customer. They DEMAND that the engineers make the interval longer.

                The ONLY GOAL of engineering as far as oil changes and reliability is to make the vehicle last out the warranty period, whatever that is, without requiring warranty service. After that it is "on you", and the marketing folks are no longer very interested. It's actually to their advantage if you want a new vehicle by then.

                If you have ever worked as an engineer in a larger company, you will recognize that while the engineers DO want to make the best product, the bosses, bean counters, and marketing folks have an absolute veto power. It is up to the engineers to give those folks what they demand.

                If they demand longer oil change intervals, then you give them longer il change intervals. Yes, you make sure that the vehicle will be OK through the warranty period at those longer intervals. DONE.
                Last edited by J Tiers; 03-02-2022, 12:42 PM.
                CNC machines only go through the motions.

                Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                Comment


                • Which auto maker engineering department did you work for Jerry?
                  Why beat up on the new guy ? He might leave this forum.

                  -D
                  DZER

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                    Which auto maker engineering department did you work for Jerry?
                    Why beat up on the new guy ? He might leave this forum.

                    -D
                    I worked for others, I knew people at Ford.

                    It's the same most everywhere as far as the beancounters. In any consumer oriented industry, and many industrial oriented manufacturers as well. You have to meet certain specs, and you have to have the product outlast the warranty without problems. After that, it varies.....
                    CNC machines only go through the motions.

                    Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                    Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                    Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                    I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                    Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                    Comment


                    • I paid $7,900 for my Tacoma fleet truck with 60,000 miles on it. I'm up to 120,000 miles and expect to go to at least 200,000. That should take me well into my early retirement.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                        I worked for others, I knew people at Ford.

                        It's the same most everywhere as far as the beancounters. In any consumer oriented industry, and many industrial oriented manufacturers as well. You have to meet certain specs, and you have to have the product outlast the warranty without problems. After that, it varies.....
                        So you are saying that oil hasn’t hasn’t changed any, especially synthetics in the last 50-60 years to warrant a longer oil change interval than 3500 miles.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxford View Post

                          So you are saying that oil hasn’t hasn’t changed any, especially synthetics in the last 50-60 years to warrant a longer oil change interval than 3500 miles.
                          YOU are saying that.

                          No idea WHY you claim that, but it's nothing to do with anything I wrote. Maybe you have a reason?

                          My take on it is that the newer oils were one way of satisfying marketing folks. Oils were improved (or allegedly improved) to get several benefits... 1) Better gas mileage (thinner oil viscosity) 2) fewer oil changes 3) no effect on warranty repairs, Probably in that order of importance.

                          Yes, I DO expect that the change interval has been pushed to the limit. Why wouldn't they do that?

                          Ford is the company that thought it was cheaper to pay the lawsuits from roasting a few passengers than to fix the gas tanks on all the vehicles. Yeah, I believe they push the oil change limits.

                          You do have to wonder when the oil has been made thinner, but you are supposed to be able to change it less often. Good additive package?..... less breakdown with heat and time, etc? And probably some old fashioned "marketing optimism".

                          The Ranger has NO oil change interval. You are supposed to check the "percent oil life" reading, which seems to depend on mileage vs number of start-stop cycles. If you do run it to the limit, I understand there is a warning message that will bug you until you change the oil. It is a semi-synthetic blend oil.

                          The only hard and fast rule is not to exceed 10,000 miles between oil changes regardless of the remaining miles.

                          The old S10 suggested 5000 miles (7500 miles if all highway), with old time oil, 5W30 IIRC. I ALWAYS used 3500 miles, and when I got rid of the truck at 207,500 miles, the engine was the best part of the truck. No oil burning, and good compression all around. I can't PROVE it was due to the 3500 miles per change, but it did happen, and I did change that often.

                          I tend to change oil in the new truck at about 20% oil life left, per their "oil life estimation algorithm". I see no reason to run the oil life to the limit. Oil is a lot cheaper than engine work.
                          Last edited by J Tiers; 03-03-2022, 03:13 AM.
                          CNC machines only go through the motions.

                          Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                          Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                          Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                          I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                          Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Doozer View Post

                            Yes but most real truck drivers know how to park.
                            Look at a narrow dock to back into for 2 seconds,
                            memorize what it looks like, then pull ahead and
                            proceed to back up into it.
                            Skills is what separates the men from the boys.

                            --D
                            Yeah, you know what? Yer BS is superseded only for your need. Real Truck drivers? ZDont assume to criticize a guy with a 15 foot trailer with a short hitch.

                            I had to back up into really tight lines for the Vons base and Ralph base out in Baldwin Park, Calif. Very thin lines and there were at least a hundred of them. Never knew what spot you got. It was alway occupied on either side with a big Van. (Van, big semi trailer).

                            Try not to diminish everyones stuff. Some folks can do.. JR

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JRouche View Post

                              Yeah, you know what? Yer BS is superseded only for your need. Real Truck drivers? ZDont assume to criticize a guy with a 15 foot trailer with a short hitch.

                              I had to back up into really tight lines for the Vons base and Ralph base out in Baldwin Park, Calif. Very thin lines and there were at least a hundred of them. Never knew what spot you got. It was alway occupied on either side with a big Van. (Van, big semi trailer).

                              Try not to diminish everyones stuff. Some folks can do.. JR
                              You either can or you can't.
                              You gotta problem with that ?
                              You want me to sugar coat it so you don't get a tummy ache?
                              Show us on the doll where the mean Doozer touched you.

                              -D
                              DZER

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                                New vehicle often will last longer than old ones. The manufacturing has changed, with finer finish on cylinders, etc, removing the "break-in" period that used to be required, but which many customers ignored. Longer engine life is a side effect of that.



                                Yes, the engineers may be wrong.... Why?

                                Because THEY do NOT make the call.

                                The truth of the matter is much more likely that the marketing folks demand the longest oil change interval possible, because oil changes are expensive and annoy the customer. They DEMAND that the engineers make the interval longer.

                                The ONLY GOAL of engineering as far as oil changes and reliability is to make the vehicle last out the warranty period, whatever that is, without requiring warranty service. After that it is "on you", and the marketing folks are no longer very interested. It's actually to their advantage if you want a new vehicle by then.

                                If you have ever worked as an engineer in a larger company, you will recognize that while the engineers DO want to make the best product, the bosses, bean counters, and marketing folks have an absolute veto power. It is up to the engineers to give those folks what they demand.

                                If they demand longer oil change intervals, then you give them longer il change intervals. Yes, you make sure that the vehicle will be OK through the warranty period at those longer intervals. DONE.
                                Your wild ass theory about a marketing conspiracy against the engineers is ridiculous! Who looks to check the oil change interval before buying a new car????? The answer is no one on the planet. Wake me up when you have any actual test or historical data refuting newer long EOM recommendations on oil change intervals. Until then you guys are just making stuff up with no data to support your points. The guys here are usually are logical and can be counted on to think like an engineer. For some reason this topic seems to have attracted unsupported nonsense. Those that use outdated recommendations are just stuck in the past. Just because the car engines you grew up with needed more frequent changes doesn't mean modern engines and modern oils do. Where do you think those older recommendations of 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, etc. came from??? They came from EOM engineers destructive testing of those older engines and oils. Now, where do you think these longer recommendations come from????

                                Comment

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