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Another project, this one steam related, renovating old steam toy.

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  • #31
    I ordered a bunch of parts for my D-10 and D-4 a few months ago. Wilesco stocks most of the parts since they never really changed designs. On the little D-4 the front fitting came loose, instead of trying to solder with the chrome I just used some Hysol 1C ceramic epoxy and pit it back in place. That stuff is good to way beyond what that boiler will get to.

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    • #32
      I had one of these Fleischmann steam toys when I was a kid in the early 1960s. IIRC it looked similar to yours, but I only played with it a few times before my father had me donate it to the science department of the local Junior High School 9th grade in 1963.

      Perhaps the pressure gauge is actually in tenths of bar. 0.3 bar would be about 4.5 PSI. If it is a scale model, then perhaps the pressure is scaled as well?

      I found one of these steam engines on eBay where the pressure gauge is clearly visible, and it appears to be 0-3 Atmospheres, which is also very close to kg/cm2.

      Click image for larger version

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      Last edited by PStechPaul; 03-16-2022, 04:14 AM.
      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
      Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
      USA Maryland 21030

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      • #33
        I have just acquired a Wilesco engine . complete in box and with istructions, They say that the safety valve will blow off at 26 lbs,
        Regards David Powell.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by David Powell View Post
          I have just acquired a Wilesco engine . complete in box and with istructions, They say that the safety valve will blow off at 26 lbs,
          Regards David Powell.
          This is the one I have, had it since I was in elementary school. Amazing it hasn't changed at all except for some colors.
          Click image for larger version

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          • #35
            Originally posted by David Powell View Post
            I have just acquired a Wilesco engine . complete in box and with istructions, They say that the safety valve will blow off at 26 lbs,
            Regards David Powell.
            That seems rather high for the construction of these things....or at least this one. When I removed the water gauge, I found that the "seal" around it was merely an undersized hole in a rubber gasket at each end. The rubber was sort if formed into a cone shape by the 2 piece gauge holder, so that it might hold some pressure. Didn't look good for that much.

            On the assumption that it is in bar, (it IS German) the 26 psi would be about mid-scale, which seems consistent. This one may get its safety valve recalibrated to 12 psi, if I can get it out of the boiler. I just don't trust it to 26, and even a pressure test would not convince me. The boiler ends are 1/2mm thick FLAT sheets.
            CNC machines only go through the motions

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            • #36
              Other projects are stopped for various reasons (parts on order, tools needed, etc) so I got around to working on this a bit more. I got all the safety valves out of the boiler, cleaned out most of the crazy rusty scale that was in it, and took off the water gauge.

              There is one part left in it, that has to come out, but I have no good plan for doing that. The whistle is the problem. All of the screwed-in fittings have, or had, bushes or plates soldered on from inside, because there was no way to put threads in the half mm thick shell.

              The drain valve bush is rattling around in the boiler, and the soldered-on plate for the whistle has come off the boiler shell, so the whistle is flopping loose. It's obviously a big leak, and has to be fixed.

              Problem is that the threads are stuck, the whistle won't unscrew, the plate just spins around inside. It looks about 10mm x 15mm (I obviously cannot get any measuring tool to it), and the largest hole in the boiler is only 8mm, down at the bottom at one end. So no way to get a regular wrench, pliers, etc in there. It's also in the middle of the boiler length, about 100 mm from either end, hard to reach with anything.

              The whistle base is one piece with its threads, and if I cut it flush, I have the problem of somehow mounting it again. There is a way to do that, but I just do not want to go there unless I absolutely have to.

              You can see the whistle, second pic in post 14. The stain around it seems to be from it having leaked for a considerable time before it actually came totally loose. It's not solder.

              I have no way of soldering the plate on the inside again, because I cannot reach it to clean the surfaces, and the gap to the inside of the shell is less than 1 mm. I could solder the whistle body directly on the outside surface, but the same issue of cleaning in the tiny gap comes up there.

              I thought of a scheme to make a two-piece wrench, that can have each half passed through the hole, and then hooked together, but have not quite figured out the details. And the hole that it really needs to be passed though is not 8mm but closer to 6mm.

              It is a problem to which I have, as yet, no solution that does not involve destructive action. There probably is one, if I could come up with it.
              CNC machines only go through the motions

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              • #37
                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                Other projects are stopped for various reasons (parts on order, tools needed, etc) so I got around to working on this a bit more. I got all the safety valves out of the boiler, cleaned out most of the crazy rusty scale that was in it, and took off the water gauge.

                There is one part left in it, that has to come out, but I have no good plan for doing that. The whistle is the problem. All of the screwed-in fittings have, or had, bushes or plates soldered on from inside, because there was no way to put threads in the half mm thick shell.

                The drain valve bush is rattling around in the boiler, and the soldered-on plate for the whistle has come off the boiler shell, so the whistle is flopping loose. It's obviously a big leak, and has to be fixed.

                Problem is that the threads are stuck, the whistle won't unscrew, the plate just spins around inside. It looks about 10mm x 15mm (I obviously cannot get any measuring tool to it), and the largest hole in the boiler is only 8mm, down at the bottom at one end. So no way to get a regular wrench, pliers, etc in there. It's also in the middle of the boiler length, about 100 mm from either end, hard to reach with anything.

                The whistle base is one piece with its threads, and if I cut it flush, I have the problem of somehow mounting it again. There is a way to do that, but I just do not want to go there unless I absolutely have to.

                You can see the whistle, second pic in post 14. The stain around it seems to be from it having leaked for a considerable time before it actually came totally loose. It's not solder.

                I have no way of soldering the plate on the inside again, because I cannot reach it to clean the surfaces, and the gap to the inside of the shell is less than 1 mm. I could solder the whistle body directly on the outside surface, but the same issue of cleaning in the tiny gap comes up there.

                I thought of a scheme to make a two-piece wrench, that can have each half passed through the hole, and then hooked together, but have not quite figured out the details. And the hole that it really needs to be passed though is not 8mm but closer to 6mm.

                It is a problem to which I have, as yet, no solution that does not involve destructive action. There probably is one, if I could come up with it.
                Use CLR to hopefully remove the scale and corrosion so things can be unscrewed? Other option is to make a brand new boiler.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by RB211 View Post

                  Use CLR to hopefully remove the scale and corrosion so things can be unscrewed? Other option is to make a brand new boiler.
                  There is a lot in that "hopefully"...... I've been in there with vinegar already, and I don't want to "de-zinc" the brass boiler any more than it is already. if it was copper, as I was told and as it originally looked, there would have been no issue doing that. If I can get the "doubler plate" off the whistle, it can sit in the boiler for all I care (the drain valve bush is in there already), and I can put on an external bush to provide threads.

                  Otherwise, I have to saw the threads off (using the tiny slot available, and without damaging the boiler shell), drill / tap the whistle base, and make a nipple to provide threads for the bush. Making a boiler is not in the cards for this project at present. The whole idea is to restore the thing, not make a new one. The only serious remaining issue with the boiler appears to be the whistle. If I can get that out, I am on-track to put in a couple bushes, and hydro-test the boiler.
                  CNC machines only go through the motions

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                  • #39
                    JT:
                    "
                    Rattling around inside is a cylindrical "thing" that is coated in scale. It's currently solid with scale, and appears about 10mm diameter and maybe 20mm long. There is no real clue as to what it is, unless maybe it was a piece of screening used as a steam separator. That sounds like a German sort of thing to put in.
                    "
                    That cylindrical thing could be a sacrificial anode of solid zinc to prevent the de-zincification of the brass.

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                    • #40
                      No further bright ideas on removing the whistle. There really is not quite room to get a saw under the base to cut the threaded part without risking severe damage to the boiler shell.

                      Originally posted by bob_s View Post
                      JT:
                      ..............................
                      That cylindrical thing could be a sacrificial anode of solid zinc to prevent the de-zincification of the brass.
                      The "thing" turned out to be apparently a bunch of scale, actually, which seems to have had the missing bush for the drain valve as its base. It is entirely gone now, except for the remains of the bush, and so is most of the scale.

                      Whether there was any zinc chunk in there or not, I have no idea, but the vinegar solution (diluted home vinegar) ate the chunk of whatever very quickly. Far quicker than I would have expected for a chunk of zinc. Perhaps it was already eaten away.

                      Putting in a piece of zinc for that purpose is indeed a very German idea, and it could have been done. But I have no evidence that any such piece was actually present.

                      The fact that the scale looked rusty, when I cannot find any evidence of some ferrous metal in the boiler, leads me to suspect that the "thing" may have been something that got in when filling the boiler with water. Possibly the broken end of a funnel, since it seemed sort of tubular.
                      CNC machines only go through the motions

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                      • #41
                        I'd consider just making a new boiler, maybe even with a flue tube, and have the engine exhaust exit up the smoke stack. Feature creep settling in here, but if that interests you, these things really need a governor, so add that as well and you'll have a nicer steam engine than anything Wilesco sells.

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                        • #42
                          Perfectly true. There are a lot of things that could be a much better about it. One could pull it away real quick, and fill the hole in the air with something way better. But it would not be the steam toy he had when he was a kid.

                          That is what my friend wants with this, he wants his old steam toy to work again.. It's his steam toy, so I am carrying along as he wants with it. Think of what Keith Appleton calls a "sympathetic restoration"..... You fix what does not work, you do what you have to do as far as replacing things that are missing, but you don't make wholesale "improvements".

                          That can be more trouble than a straight replacement, but you do what you can.
                          CNC machines only go through the motions

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                          • #43
                            JT:
                            <The fact that the scale looked rusty, when I cannot find any evidence of some ferrous metal in the boiler, leads me to suspect that the "thing" may have been something that got in when filling the boiler with water. Possibly the broken end of a funnel, since it seemed sort of tubular.>

                            The water used in the boiler could have enough dissolved iron in it that the produced scales is rusty in color.

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                            • #44
                              Quite true. I have absolutely no idea how much water went through the boiler over it's use by my friend.

                              But, the scale was nothing like what we find in the kettle, neither in volume, nor in character. I've never seen any rusty looking scale in ours, although we do have iron pipes, same as his house would have when he was a kid. Our water, and his, all come from the same supplier, but of course I wasn't in the area at the time this thing was in use, so I have no same-time comparison, aside from the pipes in our place being from the 1930s (he and I are almost the exact same age).

                              Our kettle scale is dark, and very rock-like. The scale in the boiler is rust-colored, and more "fluffy". If the boiler scale had been like the kettle scale, the vinegar would hardly have touched it.

                              Interestingly, the pipe deposits are quite similar in color to the boiler scale, but the kettle scale is very different. And the kettle water comes through those pipes.

                              An interesting thought, and one I can't really confirm or disprove.
                              Last edited by J Tiers; 04-07-2022, 09:14 PM.
                              CNC machines only go through the motions

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                              • #45
                                Could you drill a hole through the boiler shell and backing plate and then insert a rod through both to hold the plate still while unscrewing the whistle?

                                OR drill through just the boiler, pull the whistle/plate against the shell, and then solder from the outside, through the hole?

                                frank

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