Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help! MT3 Arbor totally stuck

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help! MT3 Arbor totally stuck

    Help!

    I wanted to remove my drill chuck and the arbor it was mounted on from my Dayton B28HV drill press so I could use it on my lathe. *None* of the conventional methods worked. I tried using a drift key and I tried using the integrated drill drift (see attachments). I watched several basics videos on removing the arbor and nothing worked. I finally called Grainger and the rep encouraged me to use the integrated drill drift but to "smack it up a little harder" and I ended up breaking a component of the integrate drill drift. I've identified the parts I need to order to fix that but that still doesn't solve my original problem!

    What can I do to get this arbor out?! Any advice is much appreciated!!
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 5 photos.

  • #2
    Once the IDD was out do you now have a normal looking slot you can work with that will take a regular tapered key? If so I'd make up a pretty good fitting key but longer and with a finer taper. Polish the edges and grease the key edges so there's not as much resistance to moving sideways. Then give'er. The longer taper angle hopefully lets you generate the higher force you need to snap the taper loose. But if part of the IDD is still stuck in there? Not sure how to remedy that.

    Some heat on the outside of the quill would likely help as well. But you'll need to have a really good torch and work it fast. The idea is to heat the outer quill and snap the arbor taper loose before the heat can conduct in enough to also expand the arbor. Torch in one hand and hammer in the other. If it doesn't come loose with less than 1 minute of heating then it's too slow. So like 30 seconds then hammer the taper drift. If no luck try another 20 seconds and hammer. If that doesn't do it you could try another 10 or 15 seconds of heating. But by that time I'm thinking that the heat will already be through and starting to expand the arbor as well.
    Last edited by BCRider; 04-05-2022, 04:04 PM.
    Chilliwack BC, Canada

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BCRider View Post
      Once the IDD was out do you now have a normal looking slot you can work with that will take a regular tapered key? If so I'd make up a pretty good fitting key but longer and with a finer taper. Polish the edges and grease the key edges so there's not as much resistance to moving sideways. Then give'er. The longer taper angle hopefully lets you generate the higher force you need to snap the taper loose. But if part of the IDD is still stuck in there? Not sure how to remedy that.

      Some heat on the outside of the quill would likely help as well. But you'll need to have a really good torch and work it fast. The idea is to heat the outer quill and snap the arbor taper loose before the heat can conduct in enough to also expand the arbor. Torch in one hand and hammer in the other. If it doesn't come loose with less than 1 minute of heating then it's too slow. So like 30 seconds then hammer the taper drift. If no luck try another 20 seconds and hammer. If that doesn't do it you could try another 10 or 15 seconds of heating. But by that time I'm thinking that the heat will already be through and starting to expand the arbor as well.
      Pulling out the IDD didn't change the way the slot looks at all - it still has the spring and bushing there. If you look at the diagram you can see the spindle has a shoulder in it, in the middle of the slot, and it looks like the spring and bushing are sitting on that. Is that abnormal? Should I just see a clean slot?

      Comment


      • #4
        If you cant get something in that slot to smack it loose, you might try thru the top of the spindle. Not easy to see just all what going on in the photo. Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Stop and lubricate,
          The best is a 50/50 mixture of Automobile Transmission Fluid and Acetone Let soak at least 10 minutes ( overnight preferred ).

          Then back up the quill/Spindle on the back side with RIGID stop, so your blows all work on the taper

          Rich
          Green Bay, WI

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Fasturn View Post
            If you cant get something in that slot to smack it loose, you might try thru the top of the spindle. Not easy to see just all what going on in the photo. Good luck.
            I was wondering about this - I'm not really sure how to access it. Do I need to remove the belts and gears?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
              Stop and lubricate,
              The best is a 50/50 mixture of Automobile Transmission Fluid and Acetone Let soak at least 10 minutes ( overnight preferred ).

              Then back up the quill/Spindle on the back side with RIGID stop, so your blows all work on the taper

              Rich
              Where would I apply the lubricant to? And what do you mean by rigid stop, since my locking pin is broken?

              Comment


              • #8
                If it still looks like your picture, I see the spring laying on top of what looks like the arbor just below the "tang". Get your drift again, work it in between the spring and the arbor tang, until the drift is against the top of the slot you are looking through, and the lower part is on the arbor tang. The tang i the upper part of the arbor in the pic, above where the spring shows. the end of it is a bit above the upper arrow I drew.

                Now you can "tunk" the big end of the drift which "should" knock the arbor out. A "tunk", is a solid hit, but between a tap and what you would use for a fair sized nail. You should not need to beat on the drift (wedge).

                Yes, some lube might be good, Just thin oil, or some form of penetrating oil, Liquid wrench, Kroil, etc. I don't like that acetone mix, it doesn't mix, it's not that great, and it's a hassle.

                Last edited by J Tiers; 04-05-2022, 05:54 PM.
                CNC machines only go through the motions

                Comment


                • #9
                  If t'were me I'd leave the drill press/arbor/chuck alone and go get another set for use with the lathe.

                  I once went through the same rigamarole with my drill press arbor, and then had a devil of a time getting it to stay in place in the DP thereafter. Eventually I did, but I don't recall just how ...probably brute force.
                  Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A good idea is to put something under the arbor for it to land on that will stop it's escape without damaging it, like some soft wood. If it is that tight it is going to come out of there like a missile.
                    Larry - west coast of Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sni94 View Post

                      Where would I apply the lubricant to? And what do you mean by rigid stop, since my locking pin is broken?
                      If I'm reading Rich's idea correctly it would be a case of putting a big lump of metal between the end of the arbor and the table. And because the table is flexible between the bottom of the table and the base. This becomes easier if you can use the quill lock to hold your quill down as well as it acting as a depth stop.

                      With the picture of your slot with the piece stuck in there and the spring is there a matching slot on the other side? I think JTiers has it right that you will need a thin wedge that pushes the spring down and out of the way and wedges in between the tang on the end of the arbor and the metal of the actual press's shaft. If those two parts are already in contact then it'll need to be a chisel shaped wedge. And I'd say that in that case you'll need to make the wedge from an old square file or similar. You'll grind to a fairly long taper with a pretty sharp edge which gets stoned so it's rounded and about .02 in nose diameter. Then with some care temper it to a dark brown or electric blue color. That should make it tough enough to withstand the hammering. Wear leather gloves, safety glasses and ideally a full face shield just in case it does manage to shatter. You're going to use this taper to push the end of the spring down out of the way then drive it pretty darn firmly between the tang of the arbor and whatever lump of metal is just above it. And that heating idea I mentioned in my last post would not be amiss either.

                      And a hearty "GOOD LUCK" on the whole thing. You've already had your share of bad luck on this one. So your due for SOMETHING to go right at this point.....

                      I rather wonder what made it stick so securely in the first place. Most of the rest of us have issues with keeping the MT arbors in place due to some drum sanding or other side loads that manage to make the darn things walk out......

                      Oh blimey.... That just gave me a thought.... .Rig up a ball bearing so it runs against the side of that last little bit of the Morse taper that sticks out just above the jacobs portion. Put some serious pressure against it while running the drill press and see if you can encourage the morse taper to walk out of the lock. Don't do this against the jacobs part since loading the jacobs taper will be pushing the morse even tighter due to the taper. You want to hit that little lip just above. A good bit of force while running it could help make the MT walk it's way out just like it does for the rest of us when we don't want it to walk out. I'm thinking a long piece of stout flat bar or angle iron with the bearing bolted to the bar and a clamp on the bar that rides against the column. The bearing and clamp being arranged such that the bearing is a little closer to the column than the quill's center line so that pressure on the bar forces the bearing tight into the arbor edge and the clamp against the column. Pull mightily on that sucka!

                      For some penetrating oil I'd suggest the same auto transmission but mixed with low odor paint thinner and perhaps squirt in a little brake cleaner. Acetone does mix with the fluid. Badly but it does mix. But the acetone evaporates too fast. A mixture of a little ATF, paint thinner and brake cleaner will be thin enough to penetrate well and not flash off too quickly. But DO make sure to clean it all way before you try the heating option..... Just sayin'......
                      Chilliwack BC, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pull it off,Weld a piece of High Grade Fine Thread bolt with Hex Head cut off on to end of JT hanging straight down.Once it cools take heavy wall pipe or tubing cut square preferably machined square on ends.Slide it over so it seats against Quill and with very heavy washer or washers install Nut and tighten.

                        Slide hammer is option also but would have to make coupler to weld on to JT.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Heavy sledge on one side of the quill, smack the other side with an equally heavy sledge, essentially sandwiching the quill between the sledges. Taper should pop right out

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Put the chuck back on, stick an end mill in it, and try to mill something accurately. That is alleged to make the taper let go in two blinks of an eye.

                            Still and all, the wedge drift applies a lot of force. Ought to work.

                            When you "tried the drift", exactly what did you do? Did it fill the space and rest against both the arbor tang, and the top of the slot? It is supposed to. A bit of lube where the arbor and the spindle touch, in the drift slot, may help. Also some lube on the drift so it slides fairly freely on the slot and tang may help.
                            CNC machines only go through the motions

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                              Put the chuck back on, stick an end mill in it, and try to mill something accurately. That is alleged to make the taper let go in two blinks of an eye.

                              Still and all, the wedge drift applies a lot of force. Ought to work.

                              When you "tried the drift", exactly what did you do? Did it fill the space and rest against both the arbor tang, and the top of the slot? It is supposed to. A bit of lube where the arbor and the spindle touch, in the drift slot, may help. Also some lube on the drift so it slides fairly freely on the slot and tang may help.
                              That's no joke.

                              JL.........

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X