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Facing Cast Iron

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  • kf2qd
    replied
    For a HHS tool I never grind any relief in the top, it just makes it harder to grind the next time around. I use my HSS flat on top and adjust for positive or negative in the holder. Ir use Cabide. For brazed tooling the same rules apply. I have had many tool bits come my way that have had various top reliefs ground into them and all it dis was cause them to fail faster. Keep your grind simple and with a little side clearance where needed and it will work just fine.

    Chuck Adapter Plate - Where does it really contact the chuck. Make sure that area is as true as you can reasonably make it. And put a sligh undercut on the rest of the face so it does seeat properly.

    Don't overthink things and make it more complex than it needs to be. There are many who take things to extremes and do no better than the one who does a proper job and gets to real work..And there are ones who take it to extremes and never get anything done. Don't be them.

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  • BCRider
    replied
    Prior to buying my 12x36 import I'd only seen plates without as cast features on the back on a couple of very small lathes where the plates were likely machined from solid... Or to use the overworked term "billet"...

    But then this came with my lathe....

    Click image for larger version

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    So "they are out there"....

    I'm not sure I'd bother with the whole back. But given that this doesn't get used often I'd lightly stone or otherwise clean up the flat register to remove the marks seen here.

    I've only used the face plate twice that I can recall over the 25'ish years of ownership. The first time around I checked the runout. It was fine so I've never bothered since. Most of my offset needs are handled by the 4 jaw.

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  • tom_d
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    You would NEVER face the entire back.

    I assume the idea is to assure that the surface ON A THREADED SPINDLE FACEPLATE which hits the "shoulder" is intended, and that in order to assure that the surface will repeatably mount the same exact way.

    Obviously it would not apply at all to those "bloated plutocrats" who have L and D series mounting systems
    Just a guess, but it might be that the idea of taking a chip on both sides of the plate originated in the practice of skimming both sides of a plate to remove stress at the surface like we find when machining an aluminum plate.

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  • darryl
    replied
    It might be looking for trouble to do any 'treatment' on the contact surface at the back of the faceplate, but a light sanding with a small flat and 400 grit paper would improve the contact area and knock off the high spots. That's about all I would do there. As far as truing the face, be aware you might be machining a slight inverted cone shape across the diameter of the plate. Check it with a straightedge before you do anything, and check it again after, just so you know what has happened.

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  • SLK001
    replied
    My face plate is a 3/4" piece of solid cast iron with a mounting boss about 1" deep, so the mounting area has about 1-3/4" of "meat" to hold the threads. It looks like a large chuck backplate. It will mount from either direction, so I suggested that the back be skimmed, just like a backplate would be, then, when mounted correctly, the registration of the face plate would be correct for that particular lathe. Once the user was assured that the registration was correct, the face could be faced to be parallel to the back. Of course the entire back doesn't need to be faced, only where the plate will meet with the shoulder of the spindle. All this only applies to a threaded spindle.

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  • old mart
    replied
    I took the 160mm chuck to bits to clean it, and while it was off the backplate, I checked the front face of the backplate for runout. It measured 0.0005" tir and as it was ready, I used a carbide insert intended for aluminium. These are very sharp and worked perfectly for the tiny ammount taken off. I made sure the surface was well marked by my dirty fingers first, so the freshly machined surface showed up.
    I always machine chuck backplate all over, but faceplates are commonly cast with stiffening ribs which are left as cast.

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  • rickyb
    replied
    Use a vacuum or a face mask, it’s a messed, dusty endeavor. Cover the ways.

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

    agreed, I've never heard of facing the back side of a faceplate. Too what purposs? I won't say all because I've not seen everyone on the planet, but they are predominately ribbed cast iron on the backside.
    You would NEVER face the entire back.

    I assume the idea is to assure that the surface ON A THREADED SPINDLE FACEPLATE which hits the "shoulder" is intended, and that in order to assure that the surface will repeatably mount the same exact way.

    Obviously it would not apply at all to those "bloated plutocrats" who have L and D series mounting systems

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    I faced these with carbide.

    You can see the ribs through the two slots in the first pic.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Faceplates.jpg Views:	0 Size:	349.0 KB ID:	1997525

    JL............
    Last edited by JoeLee; 04-20-2022, 02:28 PM.

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  • tom_d
    replied
    Originally posted by Jammer Six View Post
    I'm confused about tool shapes for the lathe, specifically the shape I need to face a cast iron face plate. I've seen information that seems to conflict, so I'm asking.

    I've read that one must take a light skim pass off a new faceplate to ensure allignment with the lathe, and I'm looking for the tool to do so.
    As noted in Post #5, check to see what you have now. Before diving into removing material I would recommend mounting the plate several times to check for repeatability. Make sure there are no other problems lurking that need to be addressed. As for cutting cast iron, it should be cut dry, and the tool should have a zero rake angle. Other clearance angles at your discretion to suit the work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
    How would you mount the face plate backwards ?? If it's a direct mount like an L00 or similar you can't mount it backwards. And I don't believe I've ever seen one with out ribs or some arrangement of webbing. Besides what good would it do you to try and cut the back side ? unless it horribly uneven and mounded to the point where you can't squarely seat a nut. I have seen cheap import ones like that.

    As far as facing and good carbide insert with a radius nose should work just fine.

    JL.............
    agreed, I've never heard of facing the back side of a faceplate. Too what purposs? I won't say all because I've not seen everyone on the planet, but they are predominately ribbed cast iron on the backside.
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 04-20-2022, 02:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post

    I can see the idea of equalizing the sides. But on faceplates with a cast rear face with ribs and valleys that's not an option. On a solid plate with both sides turned I can see the idea being a good one.


    _____________

    Jammer Six, before you do that why not throw a dial gauge on the plate and see if it has any runout? Otherwise you might well be trying to fix a non-existent issue. The dial or test gauge does not lie. Check it at a few points out across the face. Use very little needle movement so the round ball on the end of the finger can ride over the slots without moving the body of the gauge.

    If it does need a skim to true it up I'd say this is the right time for a keenly honed HSS tool. But a good choice if you're a carbide fan would be a flat topped insert or a brazed carbide tool with freshly diamond honed edges. Cast iron behaves to cutting much like brass. So to get a good cut which does not pull or push away the surface you want a keenly sharp edge as others mentioned. And my own preference would be pretty low top surface side and back rake angles In fact a dead neutral flat top works just fine.

    A faceplate wants some friction for better holding the parts too. So my choice would be a pretty normal looking tool with a rather small nose radius and a somewhat aggressive inward feed so you end up with a smooth finish but a texture to the surface that looks a little bit like a record. The smoothness means there won't be a lot of burrs to catch fibers out of rags or paper towels but the texture will aid with getting more friction from a given clamping force. And reducing the clamping force needed means less distortion of the plate so it stays flatter and you get better accuracy all at the same time. In fact if it does end up with a bit of a rough texture it just means more grab so less clamping force needed and you just learn to use a brush to clean it instead of a rag.
    How would you mount the face plate backwards ?? If it's a direct mount like an L00 or similar you can't mount it backwards. And I don't believe I've ever seen one with out ribs or some arrangement of webbing. Besides what good would it do you to try and cut the back side ? unless it horribly uneven and mounded to the point where you can't squarely seat a nut. I have seen cheap import ones like that.

    As far as facing and good carbide insert with a radius nose should work just fine.

    JL.............

    Leave a comment:


  • eKretz
    replied
    Originally posted by SLK001 View Post
    First, mount the plate backwards and take a skim pass on the back. Flip it around, then do the same for the front. I would use a larger radius than above, say 1/16". Make sure your tool is sharp for a nice finish. If it can't shave a fingernail, it isn't sharp enough.
    It's absolutely not necessary to have a large radius to get a good finish. In fact, you can still get a very good finish with nearly a dead sharp point, even without massively dropping the feed. The trick is to set the tool such that the following edge almost acts as a wiper. Best of both worlds. Low tool pressure, good finish.

    Leave a comment:


  • BCRider
    replied
    Originally posted by SLK001 View Post
    First, mount the plate backwards and take a skim pass on the back. Flip it around, then do the same for the front. I would use a larger radius than above, say 1/16". Make sure your tool is sharp for a nice finish. If it can't shave a fingernail, it isn't sharp enough.
    I can see the idea of equalizing the sides. But on faceplates with a cast rear face with ribs and valleys that's not an option. On a solid plate with both sides turned I can see the idea being a good one.


    _____________

    Jammer Six, before you do that why not throw a dial gauge on the plate and see if it has any runout? Otherwise you might well be trying to fix a non-existent issue. The dial or test gauge does not lie. Check it at a few points out across the face. Use very little needle movement so the round ball on the end of the finger can ride over the slots without moving the body of the gauge.

    If it does need a skim to true it up I'd say this is the right time for a keenly honed HSS tool. But a good choice if you're a carbide fan would be a flat topped insert or a brazed carbide tool with freshly diamond honed edges. Cast iron behaves to cutting much like brass. So to get a good cut which does not pull or push away the surface you want a keenly sharp edge as others mentioned. And my own preference would be pretty low top surface side and back rake angles In fact a dead neutral flat top works just fine.

    A faceplate wants some friction for better holding the parts too. So my choice would be a pretty normal looking tool with a rather small nose radius and a somewhat aggressive inward feed so you end up with a smooth finish but a texture to the surface that looks a little bit like a record. The smoothness means there won't be a lot of burrs to catch fibers out of rags or paper towels but the texture will aid with getting more friction from a given clamping force. And reducing the clamping force needed means less distortion of the plate so it stays flatter and you get better accuracy all at the same time. In fact if it does end up with a bit of a rough texture it just means more grab so less clamping force needed and you just learn to use a brush to clean it instead of a rag.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    imo, this is the best facing tool. I use the same geometry for fly cutters. Just create the rake by grinding a chip breaker in the end of some hss - the rake angle is exaggerated to show the shape, but you get the idea. Lasts forever.

    Leave a comment:

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