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  • #91
    Originally posted by Willy View Post

    Trouble maker!

    Yes that Titanic saga still lingers in my mind.
    You had to bring that one up again didn't ya?
    If this doesn't pull Evan out of the shadows nothing will.

    Oh by the way, a full grown bald eagle can only lift 5-6 pounds of dead weight.
    The harpy eagle of Central and South America can carry it's own weight of up to twenty lbs. under ideal conditions.

    Evan did indeed add a lot of color to the place didn't he? LOL
    Oh boy here we go again,,, I thought that's what we determined with the eagle and where the vid was taken,,,

    the other point being was that this was not "plucking a fish out of a lake and then having to climb to a higher altitude" this was actually a controlled glide down to a lower level and that in fact is was the video showed...

    the great bird was not "flapping it's wings" at all in fact had them partially tucked for strength and to not break them... the view behind the bird verified this too as it showed the bird and preys rate of descent...

    Look Willy, im giving it up on the Titanic - but im not budging with the eagle so don't start this whole thing back up again lol

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    • #92
      This is why Evan was right with the titanic,

      this pics from Wiki and it's believed to have been the berg that sunk the ship --- hardly "user friendly" in fact coal would not even stay put on it let alone people,

      again go easy on me at least i can admit my mistakes lol


      Comment


      • #93
        Another theory floating around is that the coal bunks had a fire that simmered for over a week which weakened the outside skin on the right hand side of the ship where the damage was done. This theory is based on the rumor that the right side of the side had a very darkened patch from heat damage and the White Star Line took pains to make sure the right side of the ship was not photographed.
        As for stuffing things in the breach... Good luck with that, no human is strong enough to resist the influx of water through that hole.

        Comment


        • #94
          What was the argument that you and Evan got into? I don;t recall it, and can't imagine what it could have been, but it sounds like it was a nice "juicy" one.

          Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

          That does not compute, first off if it's only got two compartments how could it be breached in three?

          The Titanic had 16 compartments, it was designed to still stay afloat even if the first 4 were breached, but as "luck" would have it 5 took a "shellacking" so the ship was doomed as the angle changed water then spilled into the other chambers....
          .................................................. .................
          It computes just fine.....

          You are saying that the Titanic was a "4 compartment ship", but that 5 were breached. Same thing exactly, just a different number of compartments tolerated vs breached. I may very well have recalled the number wrong.

          The "4 compartment" (or 2, 3, etc) issue has nothing to do with the total compartments a ship HAS, and everything to do with how many can be flooded and the ship still float. You must have missed the explanation of that in my post.

          Obviously the "compartments" are not including staterooms etc. It refers to sealable watertight compartments below waterline that water could enter. Cargo holds, bunkers, engine rooms, etc. You are in trouble, but still floating, if less than the maximum number are flooded.

          At some point, perhaps as a a result of that disaster, perhaps due to a different one, the rules for passenger ships were changed to include a larger number of compartments that could flood without sinking.
          Last edited by J Tiers; 05-02-2022, 12:23 PM.
          CNC machines only go through the motions.

          Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
          Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
          Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
          I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
          Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

          Comment


          • #95
            If she was designed like a battleship of ww2, the side walls would of been doubled up and the void between filled with fuel or coal, would of never sank

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
              It computes just fine.....

              You are saying that the Titanic was a "4 compartment ship", but that 5 were breached. Same thing exactly, just a different number of compartments tolerated vs breached. I may very well have recalled the number wrong.
              What? where did you get that? I stated it had 16 and that 5 got breached... you cannot breach more compartments than the ship has to begin with ---- that's why you stating it only had 2 but then stating 3 got breached does not make any sense.... do you understand that?

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                What? where did you get that? I stated it had 16 and that 5 got breached... you cannot breach more compartments than the ship has to begin with ---- that's why you stating it only had 2 but then stating 3 got breached does not make any sense.... do you understand that?
                OK Boomer.... you missed the clear statement for the second time.

                The meaning of the term is how many compartments can be breached and it still floats. For the third time, it is NOT the same as the number the ship has.

                If your numbers are correct, the Titanic would be described as a "four compartment ship", because that's how many can be breached without sinking. If it had 16 watertight compartments (or 64) fully or partly under the waterline, that does not change anything about it being a "4 compartment ship", so-called, because you can only flood 4 before it sinks.

                Term is from an introduction to naval architecture
                Last edited by J Tiers; 05-02-2022, 03:35 PM.
                CNC machines only go through the motions.

                Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                  OK Boomer.... you missed the clear statement for the second time.

                  The meaning of the term is how many compartments can be breached and it still floats. For the third time, it is NOT the same as the number the ship has.

                  If your numbers are correct, the Titanic would be described as a "four compartment ship", because that's how many can be breached without sinking. If it had 16 watertight compartments (or 64) fully or partly under the waterline, that does not change anything about it being a "4 compartment ship", so-called, because you can only flood 4 before it sinks.

                  Term is from an introduction to naval architecture
                  Much better description - yes that now makes sense to me,,, What through me off was not even in the movie was it a "two compartment" ship as I remember it being much more... I did look it up on Wiki this morning to find out it was 4 and could still stay afloat with a total of 16 to start with, that's still pretty amazing to me to think of the first quarter of the ship not being able to support anything and yet the thing could have still floated,,,

                  although - the more metal that submerges the lighter that part would get.....

                  bottom line - the ship was actually designed to be pretty safe esp. for it's day - the captain was an ass....

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by RB211 View Post
                    As for stuffing things in the breach... Good luck with that, no human is strong enough to resist the influx of water through that hole.
                    I do not think anyone here has suggested stuffing things in the breach.

                    The ship had ten decks and the three (?) damaged compartments were flooded no higher than the water line with initially about five dry decks above that. If they were able to stop up the holes in those decks that would have slowed the rising water level. They had a couple of thousand mattresses on board which would be ideal for stuffing in holes.

                    The way to stop up the breach is to do it from the outside which is what you do with a collision mat.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Artful Bodger View Post

                      I do not think anyone here has suggested stuffing things in the breach.

                      The ship had ten decks and the three (?) damaged compartments were flooded no higher than the water line with initially about five dry decks above that. If they were able to stop up the holes in those decks that would have slowed the rising water level. They had a couple of thousand mattresses on board which would be ideal for stuffing in holes.

                      The way to stop up the breach is to do it from the outside which is what you do with a collision mat.
                      Actually I suggested it, and it has been done. You cannot have any "way" on the ship, especially if the holes are in the bow, but as I understand the idea, it's a combination of shoring up timbers against the hole, and getting materials into the hole, even if you have to do it from outside. Shoring up timbers gives somthing to hold the material from just getting pushed in. Yes, collision mat, etc, etc. There are (or were) a number of old Navy damage control instruction movies up on youtube.

                      It's surprising the number of impossible things people can do when they really have to.
                      CNC machines only go through the motions.

                      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                      Comment


                      • I have not heard of any serious attempts made to stop or slow the water intake on the Titanic which is somewhat surprising.

                        Comment


                        • Heck - hindsights 20/20, all's that would have been needed is a massive role of rubber backed canvas and a few good divers - actually maybe even just snorkelers...

                          of course in a wet suit of some kind so they did not freeze to death... water pressure creates the seal, as long as they plan on just staying "dead in the water" and not traveling anywhere...

                          that's what happens with hindsight - the "shoulda woulda coulda" factors become endless...

                          Comment


                          • Yep, simple.
                            Just use scuba gear and wetsuits, neither of which had yet been invented, grab a giant and extremely heavy roll of rubber and toss it on there real quick. Were it stored on the deck (obviously not gonna be the case) and an an appropriate crane ready to go, it would still take quite awhile with a trained crew, under ideal conditions, in a non-emergency situation. Might as well tack on contingencies, equipment and training for the other 100 potential problems that could conceivably occur
                            I can barely imagine the incredible and numerous logistical difficulties required to move and functionally deploy hundreds of mattresses with any sort of speed (and I AM an emergency manager).

                            Handling large emergencies in a rapid fashion, under less than ideal conditions, poses many (apparently rather underappreciated) challenges. This was a large capacity passenger ship and not a warship with a trained crew, and it WAS over 100 years ago. Perhaps resist the urge to apply simplistic and/or modern solutions?

                            Things have changed. Engineering, technology, precision and quality controls have all drastically improved. The understanding and acceptance that training for contingencies is necessary, and the rate of acceptable loss has drastically decreased. As an aside - if you want a firsthand account of why you should go kiss the organizers of the FAA, read 'Fate is the Hunter' by Ernest Gann.
                            Location: North Central Texas

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                            • Originally posted by Joel View Post
                              Yep, simple.
                              I can barely imagine the incredible and numerous logistical difficulties required to move and functionally deploy hundreds of mattresses with any sort of speed (and I AM an emergency manager).
                              Err right, so do something else then, maybe strike up the band and have a sing song on the deck?

                              Comment


                              • In 2007 I posted a puzzle involving a bicycle. Evan goofed it, but AK Boomer got it right.

                                https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/fo...bicycle-puzzle
                                Allan Ostling

                                Phoenix, Arizona

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