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Help save machine tools near Sacremento CA

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  • nc5a
    replied
    Some thoughts on these machines located in California having rescued 14 machines in Alaska in the past 12 years.

    1. If you are local and have the means to transport a 1500 to 3500 pound machine without renting a truck and or trailer you are ahead us that are farther away.
    2. If you have skills to repair and need or want a 13/14 inch lathe you might do well with either of the manual engine lathes.
    3. If you have or know of a spare Bridgeport head or clone you could adapt it to the Cincinnati Tool Master ram and have a very rigid machine with. I recently saw new 3 hp Webb milling machine heads for sale in California for $3000.
    4. As Doc says the Hardinge is a crap shoot. But in the right hands of a local guy it could be a You Suck deal. Not so much for guys like Doc and I being so far away.
    5. I have a gut feeling that the Shizuoka is a diamond just waiting to be put back to manual or as close to it as you can get.
    6. The small horizontal is pretty much junk.

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  • nc5a
    replied
    Originally posted by junkaddict View Post
    Honestly, I’d want to see pictures before I dove more than a hour or so to look at anything.
    As mentioned in the first post, if you are interested in a machine PM me. And in another post I mentioned I have photos but I do not have permission to post them on the internet.

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  • junkaddict
    replied
    Honestly, I’d want to see pictures before I dove more than a hour or so to look at anything.

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  • Doc Nickel
    replied
    Well, to be fair, apart from the one Feeler, the rest aren't necessarily high-demand items, and with today's shipping costs, even "free" means it could still cost somebody $2,000 or more to get it into their shop.

    If that Hardinge was local, and less than $500, I'd grab it myself. But it'd cost me $3,500 just to get it up here, and it's just not that valuable to me.

    Doc.

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  • SVS
    replied
    In some ways advertising machines here or the PM classifieds is preaching to the choir. On average it’s a saturated market.

    Can’t count the number of times I’ve seen a manual machine languish on PM or get “scrap price” appraisals, while equivalent machines bring real money on Big Iron or purple wave internet auctions. Admittedly this is partly a regional phenomenon.

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  • nc5a
    replied
    It appears there is very little interest in the machines on this forum and I have to say I'm not surprised. After all these machines need work in a state that is flooded with surplus manual machines that already work. Plus, they're in a high tech state like California where many if not most home shops have already converted to cnc.



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  • Doc Nickel
    replied
    Originally posted by JRouche View Post
    Really? That statement sounds like a stretch of the imagination of how people think...
    -It's a bit of an exaggeration, sure, but it does indeed happen.

    There's a "for sale" listing over on PM, for a very-good-condition Hardinge DV-59. Seller started at $5K OBO- well tooled, with a VFD upgrade- dropped it to $K OBO, and has pretty much gotten nothing but snark and sarcasm from the PM regulars. It's slightly less than truly pristine, so therefore, they apparently think, that it should sell for the same $900 to0 $1,000 that eBay beaters with no tooling go for.

    None of them have the least interest in actually buying it, but waste no time in telling him both his description and his asking price are wildly wrong.

    And of course that same "professional" crowd will turn up their nose at anything that doesn't have at least thousand-IPM feeds, 16K or faster spindles with at least 10HP, and a minimum of a 40-tool changer.

    As for other cases, oh yeah. Turret lathes, for one- I have a W&S No.2 I recently rebuilt, which is in great shape, heavily tooled and works like a champ... and I'd bet a paycheck I'd have a hard time giving it away.

    Big lathes and mills are another- I've seen any number of sales for 18" and 20" lathes that work fine, but nobody wants because they're too big and heavy for the home shop, and not modern enough for a job shop. One guy on one of the hotrod boards had a chance at a K&T horizontal, with a literal ton of tooling and arbors. For like $500.

    He eventually had to pass on it because he had no way to move it, no way to power it (20HP 3-phase) wasn't sure if his floor could hold it, and had no need anyway, for a near-10,000-pound 50-taper monster like that.

    Doc.

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

    For some people even free, fully tooled, wired and working wouldn't be cheap enough.
    Really? That statement sounds like a stretch of the imagination of how people think... I say BS, show me an example of the situation you just described. I guess the "Some" people might actually only need to be 1 out of 100 so yeah, with that ratio I guess any statement about people can be reached.

    You make it sound like there are a lot of really cheap folks out there. I dont see it.. I have given and taken tooling from people and never have I come across that person you describe. I usually have good expectations of the value of something and the people I deal with also do. So it might be a situational issue. JR

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  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by nc5a View Post

    Well Bob, it's true I don't know all the details about these machines. This posting was meant to give a few home shop guys an opportunity to get a machine that would almost certainly end up in the scrap yard. Yes, most if not all will need work but that's a chance you take stepping into an opportunity like this. These types of deals aren't for the faint of heart, just ask Doc he's been there several times.
    For some people even free, fully tooled, wired and working wouldn't be cheap enough.

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  • Doc Nickel
    replied
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
    Is it anything this this one?
    -No, that's a different style machine. More like this one. The control is almost purely timers and relays. It's a fair step above a plug-board machine, but you'd be hard pressed to call it anything like an actual "computer".

    These types of deals aren't for the faint of heart, just ask Doc he's been there several times.
    -Yep. It's "new" enough I'm pretty sure it has servos and ballscrews, and Hardinge used good enough parts- and the machine in general doesn't look "rode hard and put away wet"- that both are probably still in pretty good shape.

    The big trick, I think, will be to find semi-modern drivers for the servos, that can interface with one of the aftermarket controllers.

    The Acorn can't accept position feedback from the servos, but if you find a driver that understands step-and-direction, the overall 'conversion' is easy.

    If not, one of Centroid's other setups, like the Oak, which does run servos and accepts position feedback, would work, but is going to be more expensive.

    It's also worth noting that OmniTurn still sells the "Attachment" kit for converting a DV-59 to an OmniTurn CNC. You might be able to talk to them and get a controller that could plug into those servos. That would probably be the most expensive option ($4K-ish) but also might be the fastest and easiest.

    Honestly? That whole machine needs to go cheap- less than a grand, maybe as low as $500, including all the tooling. There's really only two types that are going to want it- somebody that needs parts for an otherwise already functional HNC, or somebody who won't mind putting the time and effort into a conversion. There's not going to be very many of either one, so the price needs to be in the "get it out of my shop" range.

    Doc.

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  • nc5a
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post

    Or a You Got .ucked, depending on what it would sell for. He's "... wanting to get rid of ... " them, but you never know what that means.
    Well Bob, it's true I don't know all the details about these machines. This posting was meant to give a few home shop guys an opportunity to get a machine that would almost certainly end up in the scrap yard. Yes, most if not all will need work but that's a chance you take stepping into an opportunity like this. These types of deals aren't for the faint of heart, just ask Doc he's been there several times.

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  • nc5a
    replied
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

    Is it anything this this one?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRmv-2dw58s
    Search Hardinge HNC to see what it looks like.

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  • Bob Engelhardt
    replied
    Originally posted by nc5a View Post
    ...
    I think this Hardinge might qualify for a You Suck in the right hands.
    Or a You Got .ucked, depending on what it would sell for. He's "... wanting to get rid of ... " them, but you never know what that means.

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  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Nickel View Post
    The CNC is a Hardinge HNC, which is an older NC (not CNC) machine, and appears to be missing it's refrigerator-sized control box. Mechanically, the lathe itself seems in good shape, and appears to have a decent amount of tooling. But, unless more information turns up, it's very much a project for somebody. Something you'd add a Mach3 or Acorn control to.

    Doc.
    Is it anything this this one?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRmv-2dw58s

    Leave a comment:


  • I make chips
    replied
    That Shizouka mill might be a keeper depending on the model. They make some top notch machines.

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