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OT-Filter medium for bees wax

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  • #16
    Originally posted by challenger View Post

    Wow! It seems like it's always the way. I pose a question and the replies are space shuttle worthy.
    I'm out.
    Thanks for the help.
    You engineers are a breed apart.
    Seems to me like some are, doers,
    and some are pretenders.
    I hate to be harsh but damn if some people don't love them some them.
    Practicality and engineers have a common disconnect IMO.
    Heh. You might find it informative to read about the Dunning-Kruger effect.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

    -js
    There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

    Location: SF Bay Area

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    • #17
      My Mickey mouse setup: a strainer, with a large coffee filter clothespinned in place, in a as roaster, in the oven, set at 225 degrees. When done, pour was into piepan for mould, throw coffee filter away. Coffee filters from Sams, everything else from dollar store and goodwill. Keeps the wife happy. Five pounds of was makes ten pounds of bullet lube, which lasts a couple of years.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Corbettprime View Post
        My Mickey mouse setup: a strainer, with a large coffee filter clothespinned in place, in a as roaster, in the oven, set at 225 degrees. When done, pour was into piepan for mould, throw coffee filter away. Coffee filters from Sams, everything else from dollar store and goodwill. Keeps the wife happy. Five pounds of was makes ten pounds of bullet lube, which lasts a couple of years.
        I wouldn't call it mickey mouse because it certainly sounds about as efficient a system as 99% of people can use so thumbs up to you! In a good way😁

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        • #19
          Interesting topic as I just got my first hive at my place a few weekends ago from a couple friends of mine. They've had hives for a few years already and this is the first split they've done and placed at my house. Looking forward to more, and getting more involved in it.

          They've got a big honey separator, and just picked up a steam pan wax separator thing (I don't know what to call it) a few weeks ago they want me to fix and get working.

          I've wanted to get into it for years, but it's tough to add more hobbies to the list. I can barely keep up with the ones I've got. I got them both into making maple syrup a few years ago, so it's only fair they returned the favor eventually.

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          • #20
            We used Alfa laval iso disk filter cloth in a place I worked once, don’t know a lot more but there’s loads of filter media on their site
            mark

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            • #21
              Since the OP has been going off about engineers, and impractical solutions to his problem, it's time to ask some questions, ones he so far has refused to answer or give ANY info about.

              What he HAS done, is to carefully omit all information on what he wants to filter out. That makes it very easy to condemn various suggestions that may be made.

              On the off-chance that he actually wants an answer, and is not just ranting.................

              Since this is a beehive deal, I would assume the WAX is contaminated with "dirt", and possibly insect parts. Dirt is particulate matter that may be heavy particles of rock, like very fine sand, or fairly lightweight particles of wood and general organic materials. Probably everything down to pollen granules, certainly, possibly other things. He refuses to say what the crud is, but those are reasonable assumptions.

              Centrifuges separate materials based on density. They fling heavy materials outward, and light materials tend to move inward. The terms "light" and "heavy" refer to density "relative to the medium", so in this case relative to melted beeswax.

              If it sinks in melted wax, it can be separated by a centrifuge. If it floats in melted wax, it can also be separated using a centrifuge. But if it is more-or-less the same density as wax, centrifuges will not work as well if at all.

              In either case you could melt wax, and skim the floating stuff off, then pour off the wax, leaving the heavy particles on the bottom. You would not really need a centrifuge, although it might be much faster, and likely would work better, to use one.

              You'd need to be able to get the clean wax in the middle out. Of course you could do two stages, one where you pull the lightweight stuff out of the middle of the centrifuge, and a second where you pull clean wax from the middle, leaving the heavy dirt around the outside.

              Filtering makes sense, since you get the chance to separate anything that does not flow like melted wax. You have to know how big the particles of crud are, and use a filter screen that has holes smaller than that. You just need to locate a supplier of the filter medium you need for the size you want to catch. Look in filter medium catalogs, they show what the various filter elements can do.

              The OP can do that, since he knows (and we do not) what size of "stuff" he needs to get rid of.
              Last edited by J Tiers; 05-14-2022, 01:38 AM.
              4357 2773 5150 9120 9135 8645 1007 1190 2133 9120 5942

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Everything not impossible is compulsory

              "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

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              • #22
                Originally posted by challenger View Post
                I've got a really bad azz steam generator/wax melter that I made from a C'List steam room unit and 55 gal drum. It melts wax as well as I will ever need it to. I would like to optimize the cleanliness of the wax. Currently I am filtering it inside the barrel as it melts and seeps through the filter system. I would like some input on what filter medium I could try. I have already used high count stainless screen mesh, cheese cloth, terry cloth and a few others. Any ideas are appreciated.
                I like what you are doing. The cheese cloth and metal strainers are still too course.

                I have seen a cloth sleeve, looks like something an amputee whould wear on their stump. You fill it up and it only lets liquid through, There is a lot of loss there if you are not filtering 5 gals of hooche.

                Next best thing for a home owner is a coffee filter (and you can heat thouse up). I think you need a better SS mesh suppliers? What grade do you need? JR

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                • #23
                  I don't recall having a problem filtering the debris out of wax when I kept bees 40+ years ago, though I don't remember how I did it. Probably cheesecloth. What the OP may be trying to do is get rid of the propolis, a contaminant made from plant resins that bees use liberally to seal things up. Pure bees wax is almost white, and propolis turns it orange-yellow. Wax and propolis both melt, so mechanical separation won't work.

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                  • #24
                    I dont think he is talking about stuff you can get with a screen. I believe he is wanting to get out very small particles. . I do use one thickness of paper towel set in a strainer. The strainer is only to hold the paper towel. You can sell it for cosmetics and lip stick making , soap making and all then. Your filter material has to be able to strain it pretty quick or it will turn back to a solid and that wont work. I thought about a centrifuge but figured it would not work. Because you would need to keep all your equipment over 170 degrees and that would be a real trick.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by welderskelter View Post
                      .................................. I thought about a centrifuge but figured it would not work. Because you would need to keep all your equipment over 170 degrees and that would be a real trick.
                      Actually, thinking a bit differently about this, a centrifuge will work and does NOT need to be kept hot!

                      In fact, keeping it hot is probably the wrong way to do this.....

                      Melt the wax, pour into the warmed-up centrifuge, and start it up. Keep it going until the wax solidifies.

                      Now, the wax that has the heavy stuff in it (out at the edge) can be cut off. Same with the wax that has the light stuff in it, near the center. What's left is clean wax, cleared of anything a centrifuge can separate.

                      You likely would want to use containers in the centrifuge, possibly conical ones that the wax can be got out of reasonably easily. but it ought to work, and let you cut off the visibly dirty parts of the wax, which you can re-cycle through in the next batch, to avoid wasting wax.
                      Last edited by J Tiers; 05-14-2022, 10:19 AM.
                      4357 2773 5150 9120 9135 8645 1007 1190 2133 9120 5942

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Everything not impossible is compulsory

                      "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

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                      • #26
                        Maybe.........

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                        • #27
                          The question is whether the material to be filtered/separated has any density difference from wax. Or if the particles are very small.

                          Obviously it is down to filtering if there is not enough difference. And small particles may not be able to move in a reasonable time even if they are heavier, although a centrifuge has the effect of helping speed the process if there is even a slight density difference.

                          I definitely agree with the "maybe".

                          We just have no idea what the issue the OP is trying to solve really is, how big and what type of "stuff" he is needing to separate. It might be very different from what we think.

                          Surely the makers of filter media would have catalogs and would be able to define what size of material each type medium can stop.
                          4357 2773 5150 9120 9135 8645 1007 1190 2133 9120 5942

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Everything not impossible is compulsory

                          "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post

                            Heh. You might find it informative to read about the Dunning-Kruger effect.
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

                            -js
                            The Dunning-Kruger effect. Pretty tedious reading after bit. That could've been summed up by simply "...the dumb are usually too dumb to appreciate just how dumb they are..."
                            No real surprise there. But I guess terms like cognitive bias play better in the research and academic world.
                            Last edited by lynnl; 05-14-2022, 03:23 PM.
                            Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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                            • #29
                              I tried putting the molten wax through a commercial coffee filter and it clogged up. Wrong filter obviously.
                              I tried a Terry cloth towel and the same thing happened. This is with wax that has already been filtered and is actually clean but I'm refiltering it to test other filter medium.
                              I think I need to filter the wax inside the plastic 55 gal drum. Filtering as it pours out of the drum is mixing too much condensed steam and, when it hits the colder ambient air, the wax is solidifying to a large enough degree to clog medium it will go through if melted inside the "steam chamber".
                              Thanks for the help.

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                              • #30
                                I wish I could offer a suggestion, Challenger, but I don't typically filter my wax. I just melt it in water, let the wax harden, pop it out, scrape off the gunk on the bottom, and repeat if needed.
                                Location: Northern WI

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