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Is this a safe setup for an interrupted cut on heavy part?

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  • #46
    I watch all of CEE's videos. I wish I was half the machinist he is. Great channel.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Willy View Post
      Rich, just as a point of interest, you stated previously that you had not watched the video and only based you thoughts on the content of the photos.
      Since I do very much respect your experience and opinion, have you since watched the entire video so as to have a better overall feel as to what transpired and thus offer a possibly more informed opinion?
      Excellent point Willy !
      and no, I did not watch the video, I only looked at the pictures, I believe the video link came later ?
      But I will go back and look at it and reply
      Thank You Willy
      Rich
      Green Bay, WI

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      • #48
        I watched the video and was impressed by the expertese and can understand why he held the work like that, stressing that it was not ideal. The dog was a star and the bloopers at the end were amusing. Since then I have watched more of his videos, they are worth watching.

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        • #49
          It is basically a pissing contest to argue what is safe and what is not.
          If you want safe, stay in bed all day.
          Experience combined with level of risk is what makes something safe or not safe.
          Maybe you have a ton of experience but are not able to manage a given level of risk.
          So you call it unsafe. Well for you maybe. But others who are capable of managing
          that level of risk might see it as normal everyday practice.
          People are so easy to cry unsafe. You can make 1000 excuses or you can manage the
          variables and get on with the job. If you can't, I assure you there is a person who can.
          Move over.

          -D
          DZER

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Doozer View Post
            Experience combined with level of risk is what makes something safe or not safe.-D
            BS!!! If you were to come into my office and spout that BS, Risk? I would show you the door. If you think there is an acceptable level of Risk in the Machine Shop I will show you the door..

            The machine shop is not an area where there should be any acceptable amount of Risk. If you cant calculate the risk factor out you did not plan it out accordingly.

            The machine shop is not the wild, wild west. JR



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            • #51
              Originally posted by JRouche View Post

              BS!!! If you were to come into my office and spout that BS, Risk? I would show you the door. If you think there is an acceptable level of Risk in the Machine Shop I will show you the door..

              The machine shop is not an area where there should be any acceptable amount of Risk. If you cant calculate the risk factor out you did not plan it out accordingly.

              The machine shop is not the wild, wild west. JR


              This is how you can tell you are not an engineer like doozer. There is risk in everything. It's all about risk management. Severity and likelyhood. If one is high the other has to be low. Otherwise you must mitigate either the severity or the likelyhood. My chances of being stuck by lightning on a sunny day are very low, even though the severity is extremely high, so it's safe. My chances during the storm are very high. So I stay inside.

              That said, I will happily stay outside your machine shop. There is work (with risk!) to be done in mine.
              21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
              1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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              • #52
                Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post
                That said, I will happily stay outside your machine shop. There is work (with risk!) to be done in mine.
                Thank you.. My insurance company would deny the claim when it comes up if you were to tell them that story. Thanks for not putting my house (home shop) in jeopardy. JR

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                  It is basically a pissing contest to argue what is safe and what is not.
                  If you want safe, stay in bed all day.
                  Experience combined with level of risk is what makes something safe or not safe.
                  Maybe you have a ton of experience but are not able to manage a given level of risk.
                  So you call it unsafe. Well for you maybe. But others who are capable of managing
                  that level of risk might see it as normal everyday practice.
                  People are so easy to cry unsafe. You can make 1000 excuses or you can manage the
                  variables and get on with the job. If you can't, I assure you there is a person who can.
                  Move over.

                  -D
                  Very true

                  It is not "safe" to cross the street. That's why small children are not allowed to do it. They cannot estimate risk and act accordingly, which is a requirement for adults.

                  "Safe" means the level of risk is so low that it can be disregarded relative to the things one MUST do every day. It's not "safe" in the absolute sense to drink water, as you could actually drown doing that, depending on your size and the amount of water held in the container. Probably several people die every year from that cause.

                  But since there is little practical alternative, that is just part of the inherent non-safety of simply living. If something does not significantly raise your risk over that "background" risk, then it is said to be "safe".

                  So, there is nothing "safe" about a machine shop. NOTHING nyet, nada, gar nichts, etc. The machines in a machine shop pose a definite risk, as they can cut tough metal, and thus can do bad things to you. The ones in a wood shop pose more.

                  ANYTHING mounted in a chuck, and spun, "could" come loose and hit you. It is not "safe".

                  So, yes, "risk management" is in order. Do your best to see that chucked items do NOT come loose. If you don't know how to make sure, learn how.

                  But never make the mistake of thinking the shop is "safe". That's a good way to lose pieces of yourself, or worse.

                  The problem here is that it is easy to call out something as "unsafe", and very hard to prove it is not. There are so many possible faults that I guarantee you have not checked, that you cannot effectively answer anyone who calls you out as "unsafe".

                  Take personal responsibility, check your setups, think ahead asking yourself "what could go wrong?". Satisfy yourself about what you are doing, but it's OK to listen to others, they may see something you do not. Don't listen to silly squeals about safety, but DO listen to ones backed up by facts about what you are doing.

                  In fact, if someone is prone to horrified shrieks while you are working, ban them from the shop, THEY are unsafe due to possibly startling you.
                  CNC machines only go through the motions

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                  • #54
                    Yes, machine shops are extremely dangerous places. One can do one's best to minimize risk, but it can't ever be eliminated. A simple mistake can be deadly around such equipment, as I'm sure many of us have first or second hand experience with. That's why training is very important. Personally, I've still got all my fingers intact. I have had a few stitches from machine shop incidents as an apprentice though. My number one bit of advice is to NEVER put any part of your body in or even very near a possible pinch point. Number two is to keep your balance when pulling on a wrench, and always pull toward yourself. Especially important if you're standing in a pile of razor sharp chips while doing it ..
                    Last edited by eKretz; 05-24-2022, 12:15 AM.

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                    • #55
                      I was 24 years old working in a shop on mills and lathes and a 35-40 year old (or so ) "oldtimer" wanted to check the surface finish on a turning shaft
                      and as quick as a wink, he lost 3 fingers.....The scream was incredible.... he forgot that he had gloves on because he used gloves to clear swarf on his machine.
                      One millisecond of time can mean a lifetime of regrets ......so what you see someone else get away with does not mean "you" can do it
                      I remember because i didn't think a human could scream that loud with all the noise in the shop....and you never want to hear that , believe me

                      Rich

                      Green Bay, WI

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by eKretz View Post
                        ................................... Number two is to keep your balance when pulling on a wrench, and always pull toward yourself. .................
                        I'd modify that to say to "pull away from any moving or otherwise dangerous parts, in such a way that neither your hands nor your body will go into danger if something breaks etc".

                        I'd not recommend pulling toward one's self if an unguarded belt is between your body and hands, for instance. Actually, I'd not want to put myself in that position.

                        it also matters how sharp what you are pulling is..... I cut "away from myself" when using a chisel or knife, etc. A wrench is generally less of an issue, unless you can brain yourself with it if it comes loose.

                        Common sense is the key.
                        CNC machines only go through the motions

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                          I'd modify that to say to "pull away from any moving or otherwise dangerous parts, in such a way that neither your hands nor your body will go into danger if something breaks etc".

                          I'd not recommend pulling toward one's self if an unguarded belt is between your body and hands, for instance. Actually, I'd not want to put myself in that position.

                          it also matters how sharp what you are pulling is..... I cut "away from myself" when using a chisel or knife, etc. A wrench is generally less of an issue, unless you can brain yourself with it if it comes loose.

                          Common sense is the key.
                          Common sense should tell you not to be wrenching in near vicinity to moving parts as well... And yeah, I'd agree one should never put one's self in that position. (Unguarded spinning belt between body and hands when pulling on anything. )

                          And the pull toward yourself in my post was intended to mean the pull on the wrench - not sharp-edged cutting tools... Pushing on a big wrench (say couple feet long) makes it much easier to lose footing if something suddenly breaks loose or the wrench somehow loses purchase - and in a large machine shop, losing your footing can put you in the hospital - or worse. Pulling toward yourself generally keeps your center of gravity much better centered and stable. This obviously isn't so much an issue with tiny hand tools...

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                          • #58
                            For sure..... just a comment, not a critique.
                            CNC machines only go through the motions

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                            • #59
                              I have to continue the shop experience I just mentioned as it is so sad
                              The glove caught on the shaft ( rough ) and ripped off the glove and 3 fingers but left his thumb and index finger on his right hand
                              blood everywhere and we got a tourniquet on his right arm and luckily the fire department was only a minute or two away for the ambulance to come .( 1/8 mile ?)
                              We stood around in shock talking when a fireman came back and said the hospital wants the fingers, so we rushed back inside ,
                              and could not find them, and then one of the lesser intelligent guys in our shop said
                              " i picked them up and threw them in the toilet so you guys didn't have to do that"
                              Boy was the boss pissed .. and we all felt stupid --but he never came back to work , so he probably never knew what really happened
                              As I said, a sad experience
                              Rich

                              Green Bay, WI

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
                                I have to continue the shop experience I just mentioned as it is so sad
                                The glove caught on the shaft ( rough ) and ripped off the glove and 3 fingers but left his thumb and index finger on his right hand
                                blood everywhere and we got a tourniquet on his right arm and luckily the fire department was only a minute or two away for the ambulance to come .( 1/8 mile ?)
                                We stood around in shock talking when a fireman came back and said the hospital wants the fingers, so we rushed back inside ,
                                and could not find them, and then one of the lesser intelligent guys in our shop said
                                " i picked them up and threw them in the toilet so you guys didn't have to do that"
                                Boy was the boss pissed .. and we all felt stupid --but he never came back to work , so he probably never knew what really happened
                                As I said, a sad experience
                                Rich
                                Wow. That's about all I can say. What an idiot. (Toilet guy). That shaft must have been one nasty torn finish SOB to grab a glove that quickly and tenaciously.

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