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  • OT- spheres in space

    Ok, in response to something I read the other day- someone had posed the possibility of a black hole being not a solid ball, but more or less a hollow thing. I'm just wondering what it would take for a sphere to develop, a tennis ball instead of a golf ball. In the case of a black hole, my theory might be that since a lot of material would be coming in at an angle, a lot of rotation would be imparted to the black hole. This might cause the innards to propagate outwards, towards the inner skin. It has been postulated that our entire visible universe is on the inside of a super large black hole. Is there any real science that could dispel this idea?
    I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

  • #2
    Spinning and non-spinning are two classes of black holes. The angular momentum makes the math more gnarly, but actually simplifies a few things.

    Space is so contorted in and around a black hole, that I'm not sure the"solid" or "hollow" distinction has any meaning.

    Ed
    For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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    • #3
      If I see a black hole I am out of here. Hollow or not is not the question.......................

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      • #4
        Good thinking!

        The trouble is, will you see it in time?



        Originally posted by welderskelter View Post
        If I see a black hole I am out of here. Hollow or not is not the question.......................
        Paul A.
        SE Texas

        And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
        You will find that it has discrete steps.

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        • #5
          Yes there has been some speculation that the observable universe may be the interior of a super, super massive black hole. But no proof of that as far as I know.

          According to Wikipedia, the Schwarzschild radius (event horizon) of a black hole with the mass of the observable universe is about 1.3 X 10^26 meters while the size of the observable universe is about 4.4 x 10^26 meters. That is a ratio of about 3.38 times too large for it to be a black hole. So that should qualify as scientific evidence that this conjecture is not true.



          BUT, I do not know if this includes dark matter and some estimates say that the amount of dark matter in the universe may be as much as ten times that of visible matter. And a ten fold increase in the mass in the above numbers would EASILY flip the conclusion the other way with a Schwarzschild radius of 13 X 10^26 meters or about three times above the observed size of the universe.

          I think this is why some have speculated that we really are INSIDE of a super, super massive black hole. It is an interesting speculation. A very interesting one. But I do call it a speculation as black matter is a mysterious thing. But there is a great temptation toward this speculation.

          And then, there would be other black holes INSIDE of that universal black hole. And could there be further black holes inside those black holes that are inside the one, universal one? Black holes within black holes, within black holes, ..... Does it ever end?

          And then we are told that the universe is expanding. If it is one, will it some day expand itself out of being a black hole?

          I may get a headache.



          Originally posted by darryl View Post
          Ok, in response to something I read the other day- someone had posed the possibility of a black hole being not a solid ball, but more or less a hollow thing. I'm just wondering what it would take for a sphere to develop, a tennis ball instead of a golf ball. In the case of a black hole, my theory might be that since a lot of material would be coming in at an angle, a lot of rotation would be imparted to the black hole. This might cause the innards to propagate outwards, towards the inner skin. It has been postulated that our entire visible universe is on the inside of a super large black hole. Is there any real science that could dispel this idea?
          Last edited by Paul Alciatore; 07-16-2022, 03:30 AM.
          Paul A.
          SE Texas

          And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
          You will find that it has discrete steps.

          Comment


          • #6
            :-) <And then, there would be other black holes INSIDE of that universal black hole. And could there be further black holes inside those black holes that are inside the one, universal one? Black holes within black holes, within black holes, ..... Does it ever end?>

            Big bugs have small bugs on their backs to bite-em , the small bugs have smaller bugs and so-on infinitem . _______(Sp?) Spellchecker doesn't like anything I try
            ...lew...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by darryl View Post
              It has been postulated that our entire visible universe is on the inside of a super large black hole. Is there any real science that could dispel this idea?
              I'm not sure about the science, but that theory is why I hoard so much TP

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              • #8
                The fact that our known interaction with dark matter is extremely limited would plausibly suggest that some of these things are possible, and perhaps in fact probable. The one constant we seem to have is that what is known and provable with science is not immutable. To be closed to some of these possibilities is to be hiding behind a protective screen- to remain comfortable with the status quo and unwilling to entertain possibilities that might seem outlandish at this time.

                I've been trying to wrap my head around gravity lately, and it seems to me that the totality of our known (and unknown) universe is but a small anomaly in this 'field' of dark matter. If a fraction of this dark matter were to be 'used up' in the creation of matter (as we know it), then perhaps a 'pressure' would exist for dark matter to fill the void. Perhaps this is gravity- and our experience of this gravity is but a miniscule 'tickle' in the field of dark matter. Certainly, many orders of magnitude of forces operating in the vicinity of a black hole are testing our ability to understand what's really going on in these 'ultra' levels of physics. Perhaps a hollow sphere is actually a possibility- which of course then begs the question- how thick can the shell of this sphere actually be? If the shell itself is thicker than we can actually see across, then that assumes a variable in the speed of light could be at work. On the other hand, if the shell is simply a boundary, it could have infinite thinness- there is nothing to suggest that there is a limit to either smallness or largeness. Known physics seems to cover only a very small part of things- the unknown seems to be something 'larger than life'.

                You can give me a 'God' answer- and I can't dispute it. You can give me a 'science' answer, and with my limited knowledge I can't dispute that either. I don't like to think that we are unable to 'understand'- but perhaps that is actually true, and there would be a legitimate argument for that. But perhaps also, some deeper understanding of things would expand our abilities to fathom some of these enigmatic questions- and perhaps we would find that our ability to do so is within the capabilities of our minds. Remarkable indeed is what we know we can do- is there any plausible reason to suggest we can't do more?
                I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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                • #9
                  From what I’ve picked up round the ranch, gravity,.. is made of, drum roll, photons. I didn’t see that coming ( awful joke )
                  there’s a cat in a box
                  light is fast
                  you can’t tell if it’s spinning up or down,
                  the cat knows
                  my wave function has collapsed
                  mark

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                  • #10
                    In a Black hole, Light does not exist !
                    That's why we can't see what is going on !
                    snicker
                    Rich
                    Green Bay, WI

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                    • #11
                      Is it still a theory that the "big bang" is the exit of another black hole?

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                      • #12
                        Thinking about such things is a black hole of its own…it makes no difference. Life is too short. Better to just enjoy life…and not get sidetracked by things that really don’t matter…

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Henro View Post
                          Thinking about such things is a black hole of its own…it makes no difference. Life is too short. Better to just enjoy life…and not get sidetracked by things that really don’t matter…
                          It's likely that thinking about such things is enjoyable to some people.

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                          • #14
                            Well, a good friend and scholar is a mathematician who worked extensively with fractals and in the late 60's he introduced me (a very low level mathematician who has trouble adding a column of numbers) to fractals. Now for mere mortals, they are in introduction to the concept of an infinity within an infinity an infinite number of infinity times. Benoit Mandelbrot's set is a mostly understandable two dimensional model of the notion of stacked infinities and the resulting visualizations. I'm convinced that the human brain, as powerful as it is, will never be able to fully comprehend the notions we are surrounded with. The longer I live the more I realize that number systems were not built by mankind, we only discovered some of them and learned how to use them. There appears to be no upper limit to what might be discovered because what has been discovered is clearly beyond human capability to "create" or make. What human has the capability to have created a system that upon careful examination yields something like the Mandelbrot set? Do you know or have you heard of any human that can create something from nothing? It's a good reminder as pointed out above to focus upon the things that are truly important to us here and now, e.g. relationships.

                            BTW, perhaps you've noticed that all the instruments searching for intelligent life are pointed away from earth?

                            DanK
                            DanK

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