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OT analogy of a windshield washer pump...

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  • OT analogy of a windshield washer pump...

    Kinda interesting, since building the swamper system for the pea shooter I did get to know WW pumps, Japanese ones that is, and they are pretty high quality amazing little devises,

    But there has been a neat evolution of them in the past couple decades so wanted to show an older style pump in comparison to a newer one,

    so the old ones are kinda inefficient in comparison - The motors are allot bigger, they take double the amperage to run, they use a bigger impeller and run at a slower speed...

    here's a pic of the external differences, and along with it the internal motor rotor. Old school is at the bottom;

    Click image for larger version

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    By weight the newer motors armature is spot on @ 3/5ths that of the old school, I had to hacksaw the plastic old school casing to get to it's motor, and the newer one is just snap together actually very cool design like it's meant to be worked on! that's unusual - usually things go the other way...

    here's a pic of the impellers, old school to the left...

    Click image for larger version

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    So - Like stated - newer design is snap together - and out pops a cartridge motor --- two little tabs allow access to the internals of the motor itself - you can re-lube the little bronze bearings if you want - they are very cool in design...


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    From what I gather there's two types of new ones --- a regular for the single rear windshield washers and a slightly higher performance for the task of supplying the front screen with the needed extra juice,,,

    well if you made it this far - your technically a nerd lol

    so if you want read on,

    I have taken the pea-shooters swamper system as far as I can possibly take it (for now - it's getting to be the end of the hot season and im content for this year)

    Here is the systems configuration, My car has 5 WW pumps lol two are stock - front and rear windows,,, so forget about them, the swamper system uses 3 pumps now,,, I have an old school pump as the final bilge, I have a newer lower performance pressure pump installed in the windshield washer tank, I have a newer higher performance recirculation pump that doubles as both an on site pressure/purge pump... this last pump is what allows me to run 3 more soaker jets on top of the already 4 that I had and they are strategically placed in the areas of the box that were not getting fully saturated, This has improved my swamper systems performance especially during the really hot days that were drying out the pads to quick,,,

    the electrical side of this is as follows,,, Because BOTH newer style pumps are lower amperage I had to make them "gang up" on the old school pump to get it to work properly, so the two newer pumps are wired to each other in parallel --- they then are wired to the old school pump in series --- this makes all pumps run at close to half speed for longevity - as we know wiper pumps are not designed for constant run...

    they seem to be handling the task just fine, remember how I kinda had to water cool my old school bilge pump by wrapping it's purge lines around it? well the newer style pumps have an internal routing of water that goes through the plastic right next to one side of the motor so seem to already have a built in cooling system of sorts...

    On top of all this, I did have to add one more component to the mix to keep the car from flooding, I have found that all these motors act differently all the time depending on heat and run time and also probably the biggest factor is using them against themselves with wiring them in series,,,

    so - the recirc pumps line is connected to a diaphragm that helps control the main pumps pressure flow,,, when the recirc's bilge area gets totally saturated - it applies extra pressure to this diaphragm that controls the pressure pumps output,,, the pressure pump cannot fight back on the recirc's output and over ride it because the recirc's just "tee'd off" so the pressure pump has zero effect on it... so now - any extra "slack" is then also picked up by the proprietary bilge that ships the excess water back into the main tank...

    So there ya go - welcome to my wonderful world of insanity,,,

    the systems actually very quite due to the reduced speed of the trio, this has been a long road and im actually pretty tired of it all... but it's also been a ton of fun.

    I think this could have been handled electronically and with some micro pressure switches - or perhaps a float and some kind of micro switch,,, but that would have taken an extra canister and added it's own set of complications... and as it turns out the diaphragm unit is about the size of a quarter and dead simple so im happy ---- for now...

  • #2
    You can get those with 2 outputs for front and rear window depending on the direction you run the motor.
    Helder Ferreira
    Setubal, Portugal

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Noitoen View Post
      You can get those with 2 outputs for front and rear window depending on the direction you run the motor.
      LOL Yes you can --- and that's pretty slick savings of resources ain't it? just reverse polarity and there ya go no need to have two motors,,,

      BTW, these type of units use a little diaphragm to close off one side while the other side is under pressure and operating ------------- Now you know where I got my regulator diaphragm Im talking about lol


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      • #4
        Interesting.

        Did you know you can create a Jet boat using those new style pumps? But the secret is not obvious. You point them forward, and send the flow into an umbrella.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Glug View Post
          Interesting.

          Did you know you can create a Jet boat using those new style pumps? But the secret is not obvious. You point them forward, and send the flow into an umbrella.
          It's not that simple,,, you have to catch one end of the umbrella and send the jet stream backwards --- Now instead of everything being neutralized your salvaging some of the pumps jet to propel the boat forward...
          Every action has an opposing reaction - all you need to know is this, all kinds of wasted forces going on within the craft itself --- but water is still leaving the back of the boat in a fury,,, therefore the boat moves forward... I thought we already covered this with something ? Still - glad to cover the finer details and help you out with understanding...

          little side note; having the jet boats intake pickup at the front also increases the umbrella boats thrust due to creating a low pressure void, but even with the intake directly in a neutral spot - the boat still moves forward....

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          • #6
            Do you mean Autopsy rather than Analogy?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bented View Post
              Do you mean Autopsy rather than Analogy?
              I don't know - did I use the wrong word?

              I was comparing the old school pump to the new one,

              here's one definition of the word Analogy,

              Analogy; a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bented View Post
                Do you mean Autopsy rather than Analogy?
                Any reply back? im not taking offence to this - im either here to teach or learn --- so - what's it gonna be?

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                • #9
                  An analogy is normally a comparison between two things that are on the surface dissimilar. People sometimes explain heat flow or fluid flow in pipes with an electrical current analogy.

                  Ed
                  For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ed_h View Post
                    An analogy is normally a comparison between two things that are on the surface dissimilar. People sometimes explain heat flow or fluid flow in pipes with an electrical current analogy.

                    Ed
                    Actually I don't think it's quite that simple --- again and it's the first description available on the google search engine definition so if that ain't mainstream I don't know what is,,,
                    Analogy; a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification...





                    Im comparing two different technical views of what a wiper washer pump once was - and what it is today... any questions? lmk

                    This is what this board has become half the time - nothing to add about teaching or learning about washer pumps,,, just chime in and try to insult a definition that again you know nothing about lol,

                    I can handle ignorance and arrogance --- what I will not tolerate is when they are both dished out at the same time...

                    WOW, pick up a dictionary once in awhile man...

                    NEXT!!!
                    Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 08-30-2022, 09:30 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                      just chime in and try to insult a definition that again you know nothing about lol,
                      I can handle ignorance and arrogance --- what I will not tolerate is when they are both dished out at the same time...
                      WOW, pick up a dictionary once in awhile man...
                      Except that Ed is correct.
                      Heck, I thought you probably meant to use the word 'anatomy'.
                      Location: North Central Texas

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joel View Post

                        Except that Ed is correct.
                        Heck, I thought you probably meant to use the word 'anatomy'.
                        Analogy; a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification...

                        Old VS new, and might add you are added to the people who do not know the meaning of the word analogy,,,

                        I just counted about 20 references in my original OP between old school and newer pumps,,, You would have to add "anatomy comparison" or "autopsy comparison" to cover what the one word analogy references in this post...

                        How can smaller put out just as much? I covered that - RPM's and in just that statement alone - I cooked Eds goose and yours I might add....

                        Get to know the meaning of words --- it's helpful if you want to properly communicate with others,, comprendo?
                        Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 08-30-2022, 11:02 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Indeed I am well acquainted with the definition of the word, as well as how it is used.
                          You can use it however you like, it doesn't really matter beyond your title being confusing and inaccurate. A few folks apparently supposed that you might want to be aware of the fact (it stands out like a scratch on a new paint job, like a dry bearing in an alternator, like a dead cylinder on a V8, like a... ; ).
                          (My female says that I can make a car analogy about anything!)

                          "Get to know the meaning of words --- it's helpful if you want to properly communicate with others,, comprendo?"
                          Are you familiar with the common and accepted use of the word 'irony'?
                          Location: North Central Texas

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Joel View Post
                            Are you familiar with the common and accepted use of the word 'irony'?
                            Oh very much so Joel - it's happening to you right now, I think your brain is rusting... lol

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Joel View Post
                              Indeed I am well acquainted with the definition of the word, as well as how it is used.
                              You can use it however you like, )
                              I prefer to use it like this, You know - like everyone else,,,
                              Analogy;
                              a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification...

                              We really don't need any explanation of what a windshield washer pump is or what it does, so using the word analogy for that would not make much sense would it ? - ahh but there's that nasty word "clarification" So we do have to ask, What makes a pump a pump - and more particular - what makes one better then the other, clarify please...
                              It was a great analogy between the two pumps and I clarified why one came out on top,...
                              I think it's obvious which one I like...

                              Don't try to nit pic the title in the OP --- you simply got no way out.... it's spot on, if you don't understand why - again go back and re-read the definition of analogy...
                              Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 08-31-2022, 12:11 AM.

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