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OT analogy of a windshield washer pump...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    I don't know - did I use the wrong word?
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    Any reply back? im not taking offence to this - im either here to teach or learn
    Every respondent assured you that your apprehension was indeed warranted, and provided information illustrating the error.
    Everyone was just trying to help, and took the time to respond to what they thought was a genuine and specific request.
    Please, just don't bother to ask if you actually have no interest in the answer (and intend to listen only to a single, excessively brief, vague and marginal definition found on the web).
    This is analogous to a kid reading about how to hot rod a car from one old magazine article and completely ignoring what a bunch of professional engine builders have to say.
    Location: North Central Texas

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    • #32
      Is it just me or did anyone else think that A.K. chose the title very carefully to originate a live discussion of several posts? English not being my mother language I couldn't care less about this slight differences in word meanings even more since this is a machining forum with people from all over the world
      Helder Ferreira
      Setubal, Portugal

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Joel View Post



        Every respondent assured you that your apprehension was indeed warranted, and provided information illustrating the error.
        Everyone was just trying to help, and took the time to respond to what they thought was a genuine and specific request.
        Please, just don't bother to ask if you actually have no interest in the answer (and intend to listen only to a single, excessively brief, vague and marginal definition found on the web).
        This is analogous to a kid reading about how to hot rod a car from one old magazine article and completely ignoring what a bunch of professional engine builders have to say.
        I know Joel -- but just checked and yet here it is again the first definition on "bing"

        this time I copied and pasted it for you "buddy" lol

        a·nal·o·gy
        [əˈnaləjē]
        NOUN
        1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:
        Is it one wiper pump or two? oh my -- it's BOTH, yet it's only one!!!

        always here to help thanks for chiming in again.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Noitoen View Post
          Is it just me or did anyone else think that A.K. chose the title very carefully to originate a live discussion of several posts? English not being my mother language I couldn't care less about this slight differences in word meanings even more since this is a machining forum with people from all over the world
          I really thought it would go over the way you took it, "insightful", but then again for what seemed like pages your the only guy who actually added something very valuable to the post and you did it right off on post two which reminded me about where I got my pressure regulator diaphragm from, and to be honest ---- I knew I was "pushing it" with the title and actually checked the rough definition (on bing) BEFORE letting it fly - just so I could have a little back-up from the anal----ogy nerds lol

          But so be it - kinda looks like it ended up being "thought provoking" anyways, I do apologize to Ed as I was a little rough with my first reply back to him but toned it down...

          and even though I put OT in the title --- I really did not have too, here's a pic I forgot to add, this "apparatus" is the re-circulator pump and the old school bilge hanging on the end, I did have to put that plastic T in the kurt 5" and machine it out so that the recirc pump press fitted in - no rubber gasket just the smaller end... no leaks.

          Thanks for your replies and recognizing what I was trying to do both in the title and what I built...



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          • #35
            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

            I know Joel -- but just checked and yet here it is again the first definition on "bing"

            this time I copied and pasted it for you "buddy" lol

            a·nal·o·gy
            [əˈnaləjē]
            NOUN[LIST=1][*]a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:
            It's always a good idea to quote a definition in its entirety. The colon at the end of your quote indicates that clarifying examples follow.

            a·nal·o·gy
            [əˈnaləjē]
            NOUN
            analogy (noun) · analogies (plural noun)
            1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:
              "an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies" · "he interprets logical functions by analogy with machines"

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            • #36
              Just took this pic - this is part of what makes the reverse polarity pump that Noitoen mentioned way back in post number 2 work,









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              So here's a layout, the two hoses to the right go to the swamper pads, the lower one is from the recirc pump and is the pressure side of it....

              see how it's just "tee'd" to the diaphragm unit? that's what makes it "immune" from influence, but, the top hose has to go through the regulator to make it to the top right hose and swamper pads, and it's the pressure pump coming from the WW reservoir,

              So - if the recirc pumps intake gets totally submerged - it develops enough extra pressure to restrict the pressure pump, this along with the final bilge that sends water back to the reservoir is what's been keeping the car from flooding, it works...

              that one small hose is plugged and just a dead end...

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              • #37
                It's always a good idea to quote a definition in its entirety. The colon at the end of your quote indicates that clarifying examples follow.

                a·nal·o·gy
                [əˈnaləjē]
                NOUN
                analogy (noun) · analogies (plural noun)
                1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:
                  "an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies" · "he interprets logical functions by analogy with machines"
                OK;

                2. A pump in the hand is better than two in the bush, especially when the one in the hand is two to begin with...





                this is getting fun - I could do this all day... lol
                Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 09-01-2022, 05:45 PM.

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                • #38
                  Those motors are not made for continuous duty, so it's hard to say what effect there will be on them running at half speed. The current draw will likely be a little less at half speed, but the heating effect might not change much. Pumping efficiency will probably be lower at the slower speed.

                  You might be dealing with different magnets too- the older motor might have regular ferrite magnets while the newer one might have 'wet' magnets- usually with a little higher flux density. I'm not aware of any other PM motor in a vehicle which would have 'super magnets' except for the fuel pumps, so each of your motors might be giving you about an equal power output even though one is smaller. The impellers are pretty low tech- I guess you'll find out whether your scheme will provide enough flow, and without the motors overheating if in extended operation.

                  As far as the jet boat- as the impeller spins, it sucks the water intake forwards as it also pushes from the back. I don't know if the suction is more than the drag caused by having an intake underwater on the bottom of the boat. When I experimented with this, I ended up with a fairly narrow but wide intake on my model boat. The boat would ride up on the bottom of the intake- and it would suck air as well as water. This way of doing it kept the depth below the waterline shallower, but as soon as any air entered, the speed was capped and that was it. For what you're doing here, you probably want to keep the impellers as close to the level in the tank as practical, so that even at half speed you will get virtually instant prime. If these motors/pumps are meant to be submerged, this won't be a problem, but if they have a pickup tube that goes down into a reservoir, then you could easily have a failure to prime at slower motor speeds.

                  Just a few thoughts-
                  I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by darryl View Post
                    Those motors are not made for continuous duty, so it's hard to say what effect there will be on them running at half speed. The current draw will likely be a little less at half speed, but the heating effect might not change much. Pumping efficiency will probably be lower at the slower speed.

                    -
                    It's true but that's why I ran in series --- it mellows them out and in fact would be too much flow, iv probably got about 50 hours run time on the old school bilge now with no problems and only about 15 on the newer ones, the newer ones have a quick change cartridge motor, the old bilge would be harder to replace because I helped water cool it because it hangs out close to the catalytic converter...

                    Im not hurting for pumps, they are like 3 bucks a piece at my semi-local youpull&pay



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                    • #40
                      Analogy; For certain applications, Even though I have only half as many newer pumps as the old ones if they were the reverse polarity type id have just as many...

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                      • #41
                        On my campervan's 450w solar panel which has a dimension of 2000x1000mm, I installed a water heat exchanger glued to the inside face of the panel. On the bottom of the van I have a 45 litre insulated tank and some sensors and a circulation 12v brushless pump from Amazon. It works great.

                        Helder Ferreira
                        Setubal, Portugal

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                        • #42
                          Seen those on e-bay, the brushless part is great but think they would have been overkill (i would have needed at least two) and also much more difficult for the plumbing as I get to use little std. wiper lines for the pressure side of things...

                          So - Your getting free hot water all while increasing your panels efficiency rate by keeping it cooler, pretty clever.

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