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  • #16
    Doozer.... officially jealous .....Wanna sell it ?
    Mike Hunter

    www.mikehunterrestorations.com

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    • #17
      Rich, that "Craftsman" is actually a Reed Vise, Reed made vises for Craftsman for a few years.
      Mike Hunter

      www.mikehunterrestorations.com

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mike Hunter View Post
        Rich, that "Craftsman" is actually a Reed Vise, Reed made vises for Craftsman for a few years.
        And absolutely awesome vises too. Reed is probably my favorite.
        Mike
        Central Ohio, USA

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        • #19
          Nothing wrong with the Wilton I have. It's an old "bullet" style that I picked up for $15 a while back. Works rather nicely, and I really need to move it to the workbench, only I am not really wanting to lose the space where I'd put it.

          I have a woodworker's vise mounted underneath there now, and I actually like it for many metalworking tasks better than the metal jawed vises. Plus, it stays out of the way.

          If you do any scraping, a woodworker's vise is super for holding the part being scraped. Wood jaw faces hold well, and do no damage (just get rid of any embedded swarf). You can grab a finish scraped surface without worry.

          Many old vises are good. My Reed 404 and the Columbian 5" blacksmith vise are good too. I have too many vises, the no-name ones need to go, probably.
          CNC machines only go through the motions.

          Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
          Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
          Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
          I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
          Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

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          • #20
            I have worked with both types; swivel and no swivel. And yes, I have experienced the swivel slipping on some of the cheaper models. I tend to favor the swivel models due to limited space in my shops, present one included. With the swivel base you can turn the vise to an angle suited to doing the work. With a fixed vise you must move yourself to a well suited position, if the layout of the shop allows that.

            My present Wilton does have a swivel base. It has TWO lock down bolts and they work very well. I have not had any problems with this swivel base.

            Unless I missed something, we are talking about a bench vise. A milling vise is an entirely different animal. So it is not a good comparison.



            Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
            Years ago Boeing Surplus used to sell individual benches each with a Wilton 400 machinist vise. Those vises were bolted solidly to the bench, no swivel. I myself have had a few swivel vises but the swivels would often slip. Now I, like Boeing did, bolt mine solidly, no swivel. Note that nearly all mill vises are bolted down no swivel.

            I just don't see the value in a vise swivel.

            metalmagpie
            Paul A.
            SE Texas

            And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
            You will find that it has discrete steps.

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            • #21
              To me, that looks rather light weight for a 5". Compare to my 5":

              Click image for larger version  Name:	P08aPhoto139.jpg Views:	0 Size:	219.7 KB ID:	2033590
              Just more meat all over.

              But I am curious about that "locking handle". Do say more, please.



              Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
              Look for a 1950 Craftsman 5 inch machinist vice with 12 " opening for quality , old iron at it's best
              The swivel is Sturdy, not a piece of crap and the jaw opening makes it into a arbor press.
              The handle (bar) is slight oval by a few thou and by twisting the handle it locks so no blood blisters
              Rich

              Click image for larger version  Name:	P7050071.jpg Views:	139 Size:	3.48 MB ID:	2033524
              Click image for larger version  Name:	Vise 1.jpg Views:	138 Size:	118.2 KB ID:	2033525
              Last edited by Paul Alciatore; 01-24-2023, 10:20 PM.
              Paul A.
              SE Texas

              And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
              You will find that it has discrete steps.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                To me, that looks rather light weight for a 5". Compare to my 5":


                Just more meat all over.

                ..................
                It looks as if Rich's vise has a much deeper bar supporting the moving jaw, meaning it will deflect less, and is stiffer. It is also integral with the moving jaw. I believe the one you have has a square steel bar, which is pinned to the moving jaw.

                My experience is that the one piece jaw and bar types are quite stiff. Can the square tubing be better than that?

                I think they made the vise with the steel bar that way because it reduced costs, more than because it made the vise so much better. Maybe it just does not make it "that much worse" than the old style....?
                CNC machines only go through the motions.

                Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                  To me, that looks rather light weight for a 5". Compare to my 5":
                  Just more meat all over.
                  If that is the Wilton 745 Mechanics Vise, Amazon suggests it weighs 46 lbs.

                  That 5" Craftsman 5188 is a Reed 205R. That vise is 90-93 lbs (a bit less than a third of the weight of my 208R).

                  In many Wilton vises, including the Machinist bullets, one or both jaws are hollow, like Columbians.

                  https://www.amazon.com/Wilton-21400-.../dp/B00004XPVE
                  With the extensive research on my reed thread, I figure it’s time to put together a Reedsman thread after seeing a lot of wrong information on the social media platforms. This will apply only to reed made craftsman’s from 1943 to 1948/49 There are no tool catalogs from 1943 or 1944 that I can...


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                  • #24
                    I went to an auction a couple of weeks ago, they had a 8” Reed vise in pretty good shape I quit bidding at 800.00 it went for 1,000.00.
                    I was wanting a trophy vise for my big 2370# table.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Paul
                      I marked off what Jerry was referring to in the following pictures
                      The depth of the bar is greater than the width as well as being one piece with the moving jaw
                      and the bar is supported by steel beyond the rigid housing with a steel support tongue that is part of the base​
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	P7050071 B.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.75 MB ID:	2033606

                      When vises have a heavy handle with heavy balls , they can be a bit dangerous ( especially with kids !)
                      when the ball slams down from being left vertical . This vise has a spring loaded ( set screw ) ball that is adjustable on the very
                      front of the vise screw shown with a arrow down below (pic) . The handle rod is slightly oval, not enough to even see,
                      but you can give the handle knob a slight twist and the handle goes from freely sliding to a locked position in sliding
                      Lock it in the middle and you can spin the screw by hand without worrying about become neutered
                      Rich
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	P7050069  B.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.26 MB ID:	2033607

                      Edit
                      Glug and Mike
                      Thank you for the info , i was not aware of the Reed relationship.
                      After the War, (1945) my father-in-law moved to Chicago
                      He must have bought the vise then . I thought he bought it when he bought his first house in 1950
                      Where is the date stamp ?
                      Thanks
                      Rich
                      Last edited by Rich Carlstedt; 01-25-2023, 01:11 AM.
                      Green Bay, WI

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
                        I just don't see the value in a vise swivel.

                        metalmagpie
                        Agreed, in the last 35 years I've used that feature maybe 3 or 4 times

                        I just need one more tool,just one!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                          I assumed that anything from Fireball would be extremely nice but cost the world. But for the size you're looking for they offer a very reasonably priced 4" model for just $150US. And it's got gibs and adjustment screws to zero out any jaw play.

                          Sounds like great quality for something so reasonable in price.

                          Forged Bench Vise (fireballtool.com)
                          I've got that same vise in a different paint color from Yost. They are great vises for the money especially. The main reason I bought it was the slide tolerance being adjustable, I hate "loose" vises where the jaws don't marry up accurately.

                          I just need one more tool,just one!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
                            ...

                            I just don't see the value in a vise swivel.

                            metalmagpie
                            I see even LESS value in the vises where the fixed jaw can swivel.
                            Totally useless.
                            You gunna grab morse tapers with it ? ? ?
                            Come on, Please.

                            ---Doozer
                            DZER

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              It’s awfully hard to tell the differences between vises unless they are side by side, or like Glug pointed out, you try and pick them up.

                              I know on the Wilton “Bullet” vises the jaws are hollow cast iron, I’ve seen a few where the static jaw has cracked. I have not seen a Reed vise with a cracked static jaw, which make me believe that they are a solid casting.
                              On Reeds, generally you see damage on the square screw cover, mostly because someone has used it as an anvil, don’t think I’ve seen a Reed with a cracked jaw.
                              ​​​​​​​

                              I have been told that Reeds were made of cast steel and not cast iron, possibly folks here know for sure.
                              Mike Hunter

                              www.mikehunterrestorations.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                                I see even LESS value in the vises where the fixed jaw can swivel.
                                And yet respected mfgs saw the need to produce entire lines of swivel jaw vises - Athol, Reed, etc. Discussions of _why_ mention the obvious - triangular object holding, etc. Maybe everyone was working on their axe heads back then? I suppose every big shop needed the 'capability' and might want to sole source, so the mfgs needed to offer..

                                I've had a need to use vise swivels, but not often. Common vise swivels have been more liability than asset - we've all been there, right? What is more useful are the dual vises where the entire jaw assembly rotates. The bottom pair of jaws are pipe jaws, and there is even a little pair on the very end. That configuration has been very useful when rotating 90 degrees and holding some long object vertical, maybe resting on the floor. It is a pretty slick design - except that the only thing that prevents rotation is friction from the jaw tightness. I've had frustrating cases where the jaws couldn't be tight and the vise was rotating.

                                In the 90's those import vises were around 80 lbs and $80. Now they are far lighter, jaws have much less reach, etc. I tore one down a few years back and the internal construction and casting were Horrible. I guess it was "VP" brand - terrible voids and porosities in the castings - some intentional, some by negligence. I thought a 90's version might be better. I'm pretty sure I have posted about it here (I have pics somewhere). If that vise breaks in half while you're working serious injury could result. What surprises me most is that vise, on a family member's bench, hasn't broken.

                                This palmgren version looks better than most (the others look awful):

                                Looking for PALMGREN, 5 in Jaw Wd - Vises, Multi-Jaw Rotating Vise? Find it at Grainger.com®. With over 1.6M products and 24/7 customer service we have supplies and solutions for every industry.

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