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OT- Does anyone make an inkjet printer than lasts more than 6 months ?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Evan
    Removing the cartridge is the worst thing to do with an Epson printer. That guarantees the print head will dry up in days. Using it is the only way to prevent clogging.
    Mebbe with epson...... With the "bubblejet" and HP it is the ONLY way to prevent drying out. I've had them dry and become useless in one day in winter.

    As for laser printers, nearly all of them come with a "starter" toner cartridge that usually contains much less ink than the regular replacement product.
    We are NOT referring to that, we are referring to new boughten cartridges, that "decide" they are "bad" and that you "shoudn't be" using them and so are prevented from using them after a certain amount of time.

    There have been lawsuits, etc, and it is all quite well known.... the excuse is that "most of the time" humidity will have messd up the toner in that tiome, and it is to "prevent worse problems" that they refuse to work......

    Funny how the time to "programmed uselessness" has nothing to do with the humidity, but only how long its been since it was installed.....

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan


    • #17
      So what older ink jet printers were the "good ones"?



      • #18
        Basically, none of them. Sealing the print head while parked so it doesn't dry out has always been the problem. You have two diametrically opposed requirements in an inkjet printer. You want the highest printing speed you can manage. That is limited in large part by how fast the ink dries. It must dry fast enough so that the next page doesn't smear the previous page. On the other hand, you want the slowest drying ink you can get away with so the print heads don't clog.

        One of the advances in the technology has been in the development of inks that dry through a polymerization process and have much less tendency to clog. Also, advances have been made in the print heads and the sealing methods. In general, older printers are more susceptible to drying out than new ones.

        There is much more to it than this but I would have to write a book to explain it all. This is the area in which I am expert as it was my day job for over two decades. I had the best training in the industry and because of my location I was trained on nearly every type of product that Xerox made while I worked for them. I know about every possible method of making marks on paper and the advantages and drawbacks of each method.

        Ink jet is cheap to build and expensive to operate, in large part because of the price structure of supplies. This also applies to a lesser degree to laser printers (many of which don't use lasers at all, but instead use linear arrays of leds). Laser printers are much better if the printer will sit unused for periods of time but for either type the consumables deteriorate with time, used or not. Both types are sensitive to environmental conditions including temperature, humidity and altitude. Laser printers use the xerographic process to make images and are very sensitive to humidity, both too high or too low.

        A good rule of thumb for printers of any type is that if the environment is uncomfortable for you then the same applies to the printer. You don't work as well if too hot, cold, dry or damp and neither do printers.

        Paper is another area that has a big impact on printer performance. There are many types and brands of paper available and they are not all the same. Two pieces of paper of different brands may look similar to the eye but can vary dramatically in performance.

        Some of the variables are fiber type, the fiber length, the filler used, the brightners used, the pulping process used, the recycled content and type of fiber used from that, the sharpening schedule of the cutter knives at the fine paper mill when the sheets are cut, the type of wrapper used for the reams of paper, the storage conditions of the paper before and after you buy it, the part of the roll that the paper was taken from (inside curly or outside flat), the size and type of the wire and web used in the production of the paper, the orientation of the fiber in the sheet and the tightness of the specification demanded by the customer of the paper mill.

        There are many measurements that are used to characterize the properties of a sheet of paper including the acidity, the amount of free filler on the surface, the beam strength of a sheet, the friction characteristics of the wire and the web sides of the sheet, the thickness and density, sheet to sheet variation of size, slit vs sheared sheet and others.

        My training included a complete and detailed tour of a fine paper mill with every step of the process explained. I also have spent a great deal of time over the years in pulp mills that make everything from brown kraft pulp stock to the finest photographic pulp.

        The paper you use will make more difference to the reliability of the paper feed system than anything else. If your printer is jamming intermittently the first thing to suspect is the paper. Try a different brand and don't just buy the cheapest you can find unless you like clearing paper jams.
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        • #19
          All well and good, but the question was what is the best to buy, and I take that to be a question that asks for a compromise, price, speed of print, longevity of the printer, price of consumables, and quality of print.

          I must admit, I am partial to Canon. I have always bought HPs, before. Bought the last 2 Canons, won't buy any other. Refillable, is one point. Cheap cartridges is the second, replace the one that is low, NOT throw away the whole thing because yellow is low. AND, each color is about the same as the lowest cost tri-color cart divided by 3. ie, 40 bucks for a tri-color cart, 12 bucks each color.

          The print head is a seperate part, can be replaced, but WHY? They go about 100 bucks with carts. They ARE just as consumable as the ink is.

          I can't get over the guys here. A 50 buck endmill breaks, cost of doing business.

          30 bucks of inserts disintegrate, ho-hum, to be expected, 10 buck drill, the same, to be expected, sh*t happens.

          Printer paper, I gotta disagree with Evan, I have never seen any difference in the 2 buck and 8 buck a ream paper.

          As to my lasers, I put any paper through them, and they eat them all up, print well, curl paper, that is the way they work, heat one side, so curly prints can be expected. Mine is Okis, so mebbe Evan would say I got garbage as to laser printers. BFD!!!

          Have 3 litre bottles of toner, pop a plug, fill the cart, go back to printing.

          50 bucks for a Dell-Lexmark hybrid is where you shoud get pissesd. Change the cap a little so you can't buy Lexmark to fit them is criminal.

          Ah, well, buy what you want, you wil anyway.



          • #20
            I use Epson for the Dura-Brite inks which are waterproof. I used to leave it turned on and then found out that the print head gets cleaned everytime you turn it OFF. They seem to last a little longer for me if I turn it off after each use.

            I too have found a huge differance in paper quality. I started using $8-10 dollar reems over the $2 stuff when it was pointed out to me that you get all most no chaff in the printer while using the good stuff. When using the cheap stuff the inside of my printer looked like it had snowed in there. I use the good stuff for another reason, I don't use enough paper per year for it to matter.

            I was disgusted when I took apart an Epson C82 printer and found most of it was filled with blotter to wick away the expensive ink I had paid for. This particular printer has a history of having one of the vacuum lines fall off causing the head cleaner not to work!! Theres tons of info on this printer if you google it.
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            • #21
              The Epson print heads can be cleaned with Windex. The Windex that works is the one with ammonia. To do this, remove the ink tanks and clean the ink inlets with a Q-tip wet with Windex. It takes 4 or 5 Q-tips per inlet. When done, be sure all cotten fibers are removed before replacing cartridges. This uses much less ink than the Epson cleaning program and is pretty easy to do.

              That said, the Canon printers work well and are cheap to maintain. The ink cartridges are easy to refill - though some of the new ones are becoming more difficult as they are "chipped" like the Epson ones.


              • #22
                I must admit, I am partial to Canon. I have always bought HPs, before. Bought the last 2 Canons, won't buy any other. Refillable, is one point. Cheap cartridges is the second, replace the one that is low, NOT throw away the whole thing because yellow is low. AND, each color is about the same as the lowest cost tri-color cart divided by 3. ie, 40 bucks for a tri-color cart, 12 bucks each color.
                And what alternate universe is THAT in?

                The single color (black) cartridges for my one and only Canon cost $36 each.

                They must be kept carefully in a humid environment or they dry in a day. Of course the PAPER can NOT be in that humid environment or it won't feed.....

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan


                • #23
                  I have a HP Deskjet 656 and the two replacement cartridges now cost more than the entire printer cost me at Wal Mart, so I removed the color cartridge when it ran out and now just print in B & W. I don't do photos so that part doesn't matter.


                  • #24
                    I have an older Compaq all in one,it's carts cost $38 for black and $46 for color.When it was new I gave $190 for it,the newer replacement is $98 and suddenly I can't find a refill kit that works.

                    What Evan says about paper is true for me anyway,"
                    Printer paper" is all it will eat,not Fax ,type writer,or photo paper.
                    I just need one more tool,just one!


                    • #25
                      Some inkjet basics. HP has the print head on the cartridge, Epson on the printer.
                      Inkjets should be used regulary, once a week.

                      If your ink dried out in 1 day in winter, you had cold dry air, keep humidity up where the inkjet is. I dont believe it dried up, it just wouldnt flow onto the paper.

                      Dont use refill kits, these things are engineered for the ink they originally came with, this will screw up an epson.

                      4th, you get what you pay for. If you want something cheap that will last very long and used infrequently, you want an HP laser jet.

                      If you are printing high quality photos, then get a high end professional inkjet that uses 8 seperate cartridges. Epson 2400, even better the 7800. Ofcourse 8 new ink cartridges for the 7800 will cost around 800$, better have paying customers, or go with the 2400. I think HP is catching up to Epson in the high end photography market, as most pros use Epsons, HP wants to take back some of that market share.
                      As for me, I use an HP laser Jet, and have friends print out my photos with their epsons. hehe.


                      • #26
                        If you are printing high quality photographic images the Epsons have an unbeatable advantage. The print head technology in an Epson is different than all other brands (patented piezo ink squirters) and give better control over droplet size. They also have patented inks that give archival quality better than any othe paper marking process including photographic. Their archival quality inks are age rated for minimum 100 years under display conditions and 200 years in storage. This rivals or exceeds even the best platinum prints and is only exceeded by methods like daguerrotype.

                        Because of the special print head that Epson uses it is too expensive to incorporate in the print cartridge and so is built into the printer.

                        As for differences in paper, they do exist. Some paper feed technologies are better than others and handle the variations better than others.

                        Shopping based on brand name of the printer is no assurance of quality or particular suitability for a purpose with some exceptions such as the above mentioned differences with Epson.

                        Printer manufacturers make and sell printers under there own brands as well as sell the print engines ans/or complete printers to each other which are then sold under another brand. At one time Epsons largest selling printer model manufactured by them did not sell under the Epson brand while the largest selling Epson branded printer was not manufactured by them.

                        It is extremely common for printers to be rebranded. The Xerox 4510 laser printer was made by Samsung for instance. Some HP laser printers use print engines made by Canon and so on.

                        Because of this and because of the enormous number of variables that are not under the control of the printer manufacturer it isn't possible to make a recommendation that will hold true for all users. The environment alone will make a bigger difference than printer make in many cases as will the type of usage.

                        Using third party toners and refill inks will generally result in poorer performance and printer life. Some third party supplies are much better than others and some are total crap. There are out and out scams in this business including false branding and counterfeit supplies are common. Underhanded and even illegal sales techniques abound in the business and are one of the main reasons that printer manufacturers have made it so difficult to refill or reuse print cartridges. This was a constant source of problems for Xerox and was one of the biggest problems I faced on a daily basis with my customers. It was very common to find a customer with bottles of ink branded as XEROX TONER FOR XXXX which was useless black powder sold by fly-by-night scammers that used underhanded sales methods.
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                        • #27
                          It seems most consumer printers are made as loss leaders. You know - they want you to buy the printer so they can make their money on selling you the ink. If you're not in it for a comercial venture, or printing museum quality prints, buy a mid grade printer on sale; run a couple of refills through it, then throw the whole thing away and buy another. it will come with some ink. Better yet, buy two on sale and put one in the closet for when the first one fails. But don't toss that used cartridge until you wring the last drop of ink out of it.

                          Gas is $3.00 a gallon. Ink is 30 bucks for less than an ounce.

                          I use HP printers A 7xx in one office and a 9xx in the other office. They use the same black cartridge but different color packs. So if you need a new printer think about what cartridges you have in the drawer. Or maybe you could get a bidding war going on E-xxx for that vintage (i.e., classic) cartridge.


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by D. Thomas
                            OT- Does anyone make an inkjet printer than lasts more than 6 months ?
                            Not by design.

                            The curse of having precise measuring tools is being able to actually see how imperfect everything is.


                            • #29

                              We have a $100 HP printer, scanner, copier which has been amazing. I bought it because a cartridge for the old cannon copy machine I had cost $75 the last time I bought one, and this thing was only $25 more and it is great so far, have had it for 1 1/2 years, we don't use it much though. Have an old HP Desdjet 722c that we usaully use unless we need the features of the PSC. And honestly we really don't use that much either, but that is at least 8 years old now.


                              • #30
                                I like Epson for the reasons Evan states (well, those that I knew about ). But I consider them disposable and don't worry about it. My son uses it mercilessly for College, my daughter for High School, my wife for whatever, and myself for work. The latest I paid something like $40 at Fry's Electronics as a refirb. It has the separate ink wells so I don't have to replace everything when blue runs dry. But it still costs about as much to replace all the ink (maybe even a bit more for the large capacity) as I paid for the printer. WHEN it takes a crap, I will just go buy another current model (or close enough) $40-$50 refirb complete with full size ink cartridges and toss this one, but it's been going strong for over a year now and some half dozen (at least) cartridges of both Epson "name brand" and "cheap-o brand" with no problems...
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