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  • How come you English Chaps get all the Good Stuff

    Where can I get a set of plans For a STENT cutter grinder ,over here in the states. Built the QOURN its a sorry excuse for a cutter grinder. I wont something like This [/url]http://gromax-usa.com/grinders/cutter/tool-grinder.htm#gt610
    all help appreciated.http://gromax-usa.com/grinders/cutte...nder.htm#gt610
    Last edited by lane; 09-10-2006, 09:25 PM.
    Every Mans Work Is A Portrait of Him Self
    http://sites.google.com/site/machinistsite/TWO-BUDDIES
    http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lan...?sort=3&page=1

  • #2
    It was a deal worked out with Bush and Blair, we got the better secondhand deals you got the Simpsons.

    .
    .

    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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    • #3
      .............and Bush
      Ken.

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      • #4
        It was a deal worked out with Bush and Blair, we got the better secondhand deals you got the Simpsons.
        And, having a cretin as prime minister we ended up with nothing.
        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Evan
          And, having a cretin as prime minister we ended up with nothing.
          So now you don't have to worry about something you don't have
          Jim, By the river enjoying life...

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          • #6
            Okay, back to Lanes request for the Stent drawings.........

            He in a near neighbor of mine and we have done a bit of collaboration on the fixtures, ---though hes not aware yet of my now having in my possesion a fine set of drawings, courtesy of Frank (lazlo) and Norm, -----I will pass a copy of the drawings along to him.

            Lane started me on this 'witch hunt' for the 'perfect' T&C fixture. I recently visited him and we were discussing (cussing?) his finishing up the Quorn and his dissapointment in it, (made a MOST beautiful version, by the way) this led to a discussion of his Darex 90 features and being sorta limited to doing end mills, and that it would be interesting to see what the 'Tinker' would be like, etc, etc, which has led to the Glen Wilson, and the Stent and etc, etc
            If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something........

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            • #7
              I also totally fail to see the point of the Quorn.

              It is a huge amount of trouble to make, more of a pilgrimage than a project (or possibly a martyrdom).

              When you are done, you have a machine that essentially only does one thing.... sharpen end mills, which you can buy new for a few dollars each. (Probably also reamers, if small, and other small items, many of which do not need the precision)

              The investment in the Quorn, if converted to new end mills, is a lot of end mills. Even more, if you value your time at skilled labor rates.... and if you do the Quorn well, you are surely skilled labor.

              But, the Quorn won't sharpen a 4" milling cutter (for horizontal mill) at all, at least as far as I can see..... Since the cost of just a few of THOSE cutters can easily exceed the cost of the Quorn, it would make sense to spend the effort IF IT COULD SHARPEN THEM.... but THAT it is NOT designed to do.

              On the other hand, a T& C grinder that CAN sharpen those milling cutters can ALSO sharpen end mills. Possibly a holder similar to the "improved" Quorn or glenn Wilson's etc would make it easier to do small ones well, but it is do-able anyway.

              So, does the Quorn make ANY sense except as a sort of "coming of age" project, after which one can claim membership as a true "grumpy old f**t", qualified to shut up the young pups with a glare?
              Last edited by J Tiers; 09-09-2006, 09:54 AM.
              2730

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan


              It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by J Tiers
                I also totally fail to see the point of the Quorn.

                It is a huge amount of trouble to make, more of a pilgrimage than a project (or possibly a martyrdom).


                So, does the Quorn make ANY sense except as a sort of "coming of age" project, after which one can claim membership as a true "grumpy old f**t", qualified to shut up the young pups with a glare?
                No JT because I'm reaching that stage now and I haven't built a Quorn, and not going to.

                I think it can be summed up into the fact we all have different avenues of interests which generate tooling problems for that sphere.
                The Quorn will do a lot of the small work easier than big T&C grinders so it falls into a niche market.

                Some of the others don't do flutes, only ends so this appeals to others.

                Whatever choice I have found that a T&C grinder is the hardest machine to own and tool up.
                Unless you are satisfied with only doing ends of slot or end mills then that's fine but as soon as you want ball nosed, tapered, dovetail etc etc then you are making rests, adaptors bushes etc, etc.

                No one machine out there is going to do 100% of the cutters the average guy wants without a large machine or a lot of ingenuity.

                This is one example where chequebook engineering won't work unless you are the one guy who's managed to buy a T&C grinder of a firm closing down and got the 78,897 cabinets of tooling to go with it.

                JC Hannum is going to now tell us he got 42,569 cabinets, sorry JC, no cigar, you need the whole 78,897.

                I have a full size T&C grinder with ouddles of attachments. It can grind planer blades, razor blades, callouses, finger nails and the odd end mill but it's a pig to setup.
                So I bought one of these, thinking they would be handy for the odd cutter.



                Guess what?

                It can't sharpen end mills.
                I'll leave you to work out why.

                .
                .

                Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                • #9
                  Oh, now, just grind them all by hand and save yourself money to buy other toys.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bill Pace
                    Okay, back to Lanes request for the Stent drawings.........
                    The Stent design is pretty straightforward -- as Norm indicated it's a copy of the Clarkson T&C Grinder. I love this design -- the Mark 3 version looks like a miniature Cincinnati Number 2:

                    http://www.lathes.co.uk/clarkson/

                    Lane started me on this 'witch hunt' for the 'perfect' T&C fixture.
                    I've been in a similar quest for the "perfect" T&C Grinder (or at least, one that's worth spending several hundred hours building). The problem with the Stent is that you really need castings for the base and x-y table. As I've often lamented here and on the Quorn Owners group, Blackgates charges a very reasonable the price for the Stent castings: آ£169.55, plus another آ£16.00 for the plans = آ£185.00.

                    The problem is that they charge آ£110 for shipping to the US -- that's $207 USD for shipping ~ 40 pounds of castings!!!

                    From speaking with the owners at Blackgates, it sounds like a little "Mom and Pop" shop run out of tiny shop between Bradford and Leeds. Hemingway is a much more professional operation, and shipping for their kits is much less by comparison.

                    he's not aware yet of my now having in my possession a fine set of drawings, courtesy of Frank (lazlo) and Norm,
                    I've been called a lot of things, but never "Frank." I'm "Robert"

                    this led to a discussion of his Darex 90 features and being sorta limited to doing end mills
                    That's true -- the Darex E90 and the Cuttermaster HDT-30 (and the Glenn Wilson T&C, which is modeled off of them) have fixed wheelheads and toolholders which can't be tilted, which makes it difficult to grind the complex end clearance on lathe-tool bits. The Cuttermaster and the Wilson T&C grinder compensate by allowing the angle of the wheelhead to be elevated, but it still can't can't grind the taper on reamers, or taps, dies, slitting saws, side & face cutters, like the other T&C grinders can.
                    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by John Stevenson
                      Some of the others don't do flutes, only ends so this appeals to others.
                      ...
                      Unless you are satisfied with only doing ends of slot or end mills then that's fine but as soon as you want ball nosed, tapered, dovetail etc etc then you are making rests, adaptors bushes etc, etc.
                      ...
                      So I bought one of these, thinking they would be handy for the odd cutter.
                      Guess what?
                      It can't sharpen end mills.
                      Yeah, that's the Chinese copy of the Deckel/Alexander SO grinder. It's meant to grind single lip cutters. With the double swivel holder on the SO version you can grind an angle or radius or both and then add clearance to it. But no flutes.
                      "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                      • #12
                        Actually, I only have the one cabinet in the base of the machine, and it is not nearly full. My air spindle is in a separate box, and a small mag chuck resides on a shelf in the storage room.

                        I can do end mills, lathe tools, drills, reamers and probably a few different configurations of milling cutters and saws. That is all I really need to do for my shop.

                        Once you have an idea of what is involved in T&C grinding, a lot of it can be done with a few simple fixtures. This is why I recommend getting a few books, or John's CD on T&C grinding and reading up on what is involved first and then setting about finding a machine that will suit your needs and tooling it.

                        Since getting my KO Lee grinder, I have bought & sold seveal others as well as a couple of the Delta, or Rockwell Delta Toolmaker T&C grinders. These have all sold under $500.00, and at that price make it kind of senseless to spend the time and money involved in the casting sets for the Quorn, Stent and other T&C kits. You can buy a much more capable machine for less.

                        I can do light surface grinding on my KO Lee, and the Rockwell machines are better suited for that. If room permits, one of these or a small surface grinder will be a much more useful machine in the shop. If space is a problem, you can do a lot worse than the Glenn Wilson machine.
                        Jim H.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lazlo
                          Yeah, that's the Chinese copy of the Deckel/Alexander SO grinder. It's meant to grind single lip cutters. With the double swivel holder on the SO version you can grind an angle or radius or both and then add clearance to it. But no flutes.
                          True Lazlo but these machines or Chinese copies are spring up all over advertised as tool and cutter grinders, not single lip grinders, which probably wouldn't mean anything to most people.

                          The correct answer is that when you tilt the head back to the clearance angle, a bit more than in the picture, you need to grind the tooth nearest to the operator but run into the opposite tooth.

                          So you tilt forward to the clearance angle and address the tooth away from you, simple ? Wrong, when you tilt forward the locking lever hits the bed bar at about 7 degrees.
                          Guessing this as there are no negative angles on the block.
                          Added to this as you tilt forward you get closer to the wheel and so you are limited to cutters with less than an inch long exposed.

                          It can do flutes by swinging the collet assembly round thru 90 degrees to the front and using the end of the wheel and a follower finger.

                          So far it does work up to short 1/2" cutters.
                          If I fitted a shallower wheel it would help but the bed bar needs expending [ casting end in the way] or the vertical pivot needs a new casting where the vertical pivot is behind the horizontal one to give more clearance.
                          The locking lever also needs to be altered.

                          Another alternative is to fit the whole collet holder setup on the other T&C grinder making it more versatile and selling what's left as brand new but robbed on Ebay.

                          .
                          Last edited by John Stevenson; 09-09-2006, 03:28 PM.
                          .

                          Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by John Stevenson
                            True Lazlo but these machines or Chinese copies are spring up all over advertised as tool and cutter grinders, not single lip grinders, which probably wouldn't mean anything to most people.
                            Well, put another way, the Deck grinder was meant to sharpen engraving bits for the Deckel GK21 engraver, and not as an end mill sharpener.


                            Originally posted by John Stevenson
                            when you tilt forward the locking lever hits the bed bar at about 7 degrees.
                            ...
                            Added to this as you tilt forward you get closer to the wheel and so you are limited to cutters with less than an inch long exposed.
                            Would it help if you replaced the locking levers with screws? The original Deckel SO has screws to hold the Omniversal head, and not locking levers, probably for this exact reason:

                            http://www.lathes.co.uk/deckel/img35.gif

                            The other issue is that the Deckel has a lot of clearance underneath the wheel head so you can contort the Omniversal head in different positions, bu the Chinese copy puts a back support wall there, which removes a lot of manuevering space for the toolholder.
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                            • #15
                              British

                              O I love the bloody BRITISH If it werent for them we would not be here!And they talk funny.
                              Every Mans Work Is A Portrait of Him Self
                              http://sites.google.com/site/machinistsite/TWO-BUDDIES
                              http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lan...?sort=3&page=1

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