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  • PTFE Sealer for Anodizing

    I know the pro's can somehow impregnate anodized surfaces with ptfe. Is this something that a home-shopper can do?

    10F

  • #2
    Yes, if you can find a source for the PTFE in dispersion. You need to be careful with that stuff, especially if you are a smoker. Traces of it on your fingers can be transferred to a cigarette and when burnt generate gasses ten times more toxic than phosgene gas.
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    • #3
      Interesting.

      Evan, sounds like you could have gotten the equivalent of Turcite on your ways with this process then? Any idea where to get the appropriate PTFE for anodizing?

      Best,

      BW
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      • #4
        I don't know where to buy it as I haven't bought any for many years. 30 years ago I bought half a dozen spray cans of teflon coating. I still have a couple left. They have lost their phttt but I just poke a little hole near the top and dispense to a rag, then put tape over the hole.

        It will make nearly anything slicker than snot on a glass doorknob. The solvent is mean stuff and doesn't smell like something good for you.

        The part about smoking is printed in big red type on the cans.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Evan
          I don't know where to buy it as I haven't bought any for many years. 30 years ago I bought half a dozen spray cans of teflon coating.
          McMaster, Brownell's, and many cooking supply stores sell spray PTFE coatings, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Ten Fingers is looking for.
          http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...?p=1145&s=4088
          http://www.ekitchengadgets.com/cosp10.html

          By the way Bob: Turcite-B/Multifil/Rulon-142 is not just spray Teflon: it's a bronze wear strip impregnated with PTFE.
          Last edited by lazlo; 10-21-2006, 04:39 PM.
          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by lazlo
            McMaster, Brownell's, and many cooking supply stores sell spray PTFE coatings, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Ten Fingers is looking for.
            http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...?p=1145&s=4088
            http://www.ekitchengadgets.com/cosp10.html

            By the way Bob: Turcite-B/Multifil/Rulon-142 is not just spray Teflon: it's a bronze wear strip impregnated with PTFE.
            Yes Lazlo, I know.

            BW
            ---------------------------------------------------

            http://www.cnccookbook.com/index.htm
            Try G-Wizard Machinist's Calculator for free:
            http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCGWizard.html

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            • #7
              Lazlo,

              Neither of those products are similar to what I have. The first is a phenolic resin loaded with PTFE and Molydisulphide. It's more like paint.

              The second is not likely PTFE at all but probably food grade silicon spray. PTFE spray is too hazardous to be sold as a consumer item for kitchen use.
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              • #8
                Search PTFE aqueous dispersions on Google. Dupont makes a bunch of them. In my line of work I've played around a little with them for various coatings. If you only need a small amount you can call under a company name and get a free sample. Working for an adhesives and coatings company my sample shelves are full of various chemicals, dispersion and emulsions.

                I'm currently working on a 1973 Porsche 911 and plan to use many of the automotive coatings my company has developed on it as a show piece, the car will be primarily a track car. We've developed a highly weather resistant coating that will be used as the "paint" for the exterior.

                Anyway whatever you get be sure to read the tech data and MSDS, tech data often has sample formulations or application suggestions. What is the intended use BTW?

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                • #9
                  And yet they coat all those pots and pans with PTFE. Why should the spray be so much more hazardous?

                  Odd, too, that plenum-rated cables are PTFE-coated.
                  Todd

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                  • #10
                    And yet they coat all those pots and pans with PTFE. Why should the spray be so much more hazardous?
                    It isn't very hard to imagine somebody spraying the pan near the stove and having overspray get on an element on the stove. People are accustomed to that from using products like PAM.

                    Birds btw, are acutely sensitive to the toxic gas that PTFE produces when it degrades at around 800F. The slightest traces from a PTFE coated pan that is overheated on the stove can kill a parrot.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evan
                      Neither of those products are similar to what I have. The first is a phenolic resin loaded with PTFE and Molydisulphide. It's more like paint.

                      PTFE spray is too hazardous to be sold as a consumer item for kitchen use.
                      They're both spray-on PTFE coatings. The "NON-STICK SURFACE REPAIR SPRAY" is manufactured by HEDDY Corp. Patterson NJ. You have to bake it at 500 degrees for 3 hours for it to cure.

                      There's also a PTFE spray coating that mold-makers use.

                      in any event, none of these will work on hard annodize, and you wouldn't want an aluminum oxide coating rubbing on a precision machine surface anyway...
                      "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                      • #12
                        The PTFE liquid I have is a clear yellow liquid. It appears that the PTFE may be dissolved in it rather than a particulate dispersion. When it is sprayed or wiped on a surface the solvent evaporates and leaves a very thin layer of whitish haze behind. When that is buffed out then nothing is visible. However, nothing will stick to it, nothing at all. It sure works well on a snow shovel.

                        I suspect this is much like whatever they use in order to impregnate the hollow crystals that form when aluminum is anodized. The molecules must be small enough to enter the space within the crystal. This is normally used on hard anodizing where the crystal layer is much thicker than cosmetic anodizing.

                        This sort of application is commonly used metal to metal contact situations. The usual rule of thumb in that case is hard against soft. The anodize layer in hard anodizing is about the same hardness as sapphire so it certainly meets that requirement. The added PTFE helps to reduce stick-slip and reduces the friction even further. It should actually make very good way bearings. It is used on air compressor pistons.

                        [edit]

                        Lazlo, I'm curious. How do you know that non-stick repair product contains PTFE?
                        Last edited by Evan; 10-22-2006, 03:03 AM.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Evan
                          The PTFE liquid I have is a clear yellow liquid. It appears that the PTFE may be dissolved in it rather than a particulate dispersion.
                          I wouldn't be so sure. PTFE is pretty insoluble stuff. I don't know of anything that will dissolve it.
                          Todd

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                          • #14
                            Todd,

                            It didn't take long to find the answer to that. You are partly right. But, it isn't just ground up PTFE in dispersion either.

                            DuPont Zonylآ® fluoroadditives are finely divided white powders of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) resin. They are a separate and distinctive new product line, very different from the well-known Teflonآ® PTFE molding and extrusion powders. The differences include:
                            • Lower molecular weight
                            • Smaller particle sizes (2 to 20 آµm)
                            http://www.dupont.com/teflon/fluoroadditives/about.html
                            As they claim this is "new" it doesn't explain what is in the product I have unless it isn't really new, just new marketing, which is likely.

                            From a different site:

                            Differences Between PTFE Lubricants

                            Micro Care designed it's family of thin-film lubricants based on two technologies, both from DuPont. First, Micro Care uses a unique form of PTFE which is manufactured at the lowest molecular weights — typically one-tenth of the cheaper grades of PTFE used by other manufacturers. Micro Care's materials are sufficiently small they never need further grinding or processing. In fact, a significant proportion of these materials are so small they are able to dissolve into the carrying solvent.
                            In addition, Micro Care prefers to use fluorinated solvents, like Vertrelآ®, as the carrying agents for our PTFE powders. The molecular weight of the PTFE materials are nearly identical to the molecular weight of the fluorinated Vertrelآ® solvents. That makes it easy for these fine, light and ultra-pure materials to stay in suspension and form the smoothest, most even microdispersions. When dried, they leave a thin, continuous film of PTFE on the substrate.
                            http://www.microcare.com/default.htm...AboutPTFE.html
                            The low molecular weight and extremely small size would be exactly what is needed to load unsealed anodized aluminum.

                            [edit]

                            A visit to the Vertrel web site confirms this:

                            Can PTFE Lubricants Mix With Vertrelآ® ?

                            Yes, absolutely. A number of companies make PTFE "dry lubricants" and coatings using Vertrelآ® as the carrying agent. These are normally applied in a dipping process. These processes work particularly well with Vertrelآ® because Vertrelآ® has some capability to dissolve PTFE and the densities of the material are similar to each other.

                            http://www.vertrelsolvents.com/faq/FAQ_Q19_PTFE.html
                            I am quite sure there were some older and less environmentally friendly solvents that can also dissolve PTFE. They are not many but the stuff that I have sure smells evil. I don't use it indoors.
                            Last edited by Evan; 10-22-2006, 09:21 AM.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Evan
                              The PTFE liquid I have is a clear yellow liquid.
                              ...
                              Lazlo, I'm curious. How do you know that non-stick repair product contains PTFE?
                              That's a funny story. I have a Clausing 5914, which has a Vari-speed mechanism similar to the one on the original Monarch 10EE -- basially a hydraulic version of the Bridgeport 2J's vari-speed. The point of weakness on these vari-speed drives is the anti-friction sleeve on the moveable half of the vari-speed pulley.

                              The anti-friction coating on mine is starting to flake-off a little, so I was looking for ways to re-coat it.

                              There's been a bunch of discussions of PTFE coatings on finishing.com, and apparently that non-stick pot/pan repair stuff from eKitchen.com works great, just not for pots and pans Apparently it has a high return rate from eKitchen because the final PTFE coating is a clear/yellow, and not the black or grey that people expect from a non-stick pan.

                              My concern with either the Brownell's or the Pot/Pan Repair spray is that you have to cure it in an oven for 350آ° for 30 minutes. Does anyone know if a cast iron pulley will move/warp at 350آ°?

                              The other option I've been considering is fiberglass-backed PTFE tape. Page 3246 in the McMaster catalog...

                              Tenfingers: sorry for hijacking your thread...
                              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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