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  • Shaper question

    Assuming I can make a tool holder that reaches is there any reason why I shouldn't use my shaper to resurface the table on the shaper?
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  • #2
    Measure the ram droop at farthest point it will be cutting on the table just to make sure it won't be diving and producing a curved table top. As long as the ram is running true it should work fine. Grind a bit with a wiper to minimize the step over marks.
    The other concern is the depth of the T-slots, if you take too much off the table T- nuts will protrude. (but you'de really have to go crazy to get this problem.)
    Last edited by Rusty Marlin; 12-08-2006, 03:02 PM.
    Ignorance is curable through education.

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    • #3
      Sure,

      but if the tables slides have wear, it will transfer to the new surface.
      It may improve conditions but not produce the perfect table.

      The best solution is to skim, and scrape the bearing surfaces, and adjust the gibs prior to skimming off the table.

      Just my thoughts.

      Kap

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      • #4
        Hmm. I think I'd better leave the shaper under the chain fall for a while in case I want to take off some parts.
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        • #5
          Stone or burr-file any high spots down to level, then use the shaper to flatten the top of a piece of plate, flip it and do the bottom. Get the plate tight down on the table before each pass......

          See if the workpiece has a thickness variation side to side, or front to back. If so, maybe the ram is diving, or the table isn't flat, or you missed a high spot, piece of swarf, etc.

          Kinda like what you would do to check a grinder.
          1601

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

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          • #6
            check on the condition of the ram ways by removing the ram and gibs , the ram will dig itself into the ways and leave a bit of a ridge .
            if its worn i wouldnt surface the box table , if theres not much wear go ahead .
            bear in mind this might be a bad idea if you can rotate the box table.
            you could install a sacraficial plate on to of the box table to machine .

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            • #7
              Evan

              I struggled with the same question when I got mine. It was actually a "standard" sort of thing in ye olden days to true up a shaper table when it got dinged up, since new tables are a thing of the past it doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore. I ran mine for a few months and got a feeling for trueness and wear, found that the machine was running well and true so did take a small (.005 or so) cut with a nearly flat finishing tool. HSMs tend to take more care of their machines than commercial shops, so that one truing will probably last a long time.

              Joe

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              • #8
                Thanks for the various comments guys, some things to consider and think about.

                Joe, I think your comment about running yours for a while is a good idea. That sounds like what I should do too. It will be a while before I have it running anyway and I have a few parts to make for the drive.

                I picked up a nice 3/4" drive impact socket cheap to make a handle for the shaper. I just need to weld it to an arm and put a hand grip on it.
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                • #9
                  Evan,
                  Just hold off on the resurface of the table, what you want to do first is put some Vactra II in the ram ways, and by hand for now you can hand turn crank. If the shaper has a transmission, shift into nutral position, that will let you drive the slide block on the bull gear, moving the ram. This is done by placing a hand crank, or Johnson bar and socket on the sq. drive shaft that adjusts the stroke. You want the Vactra to be on all surfaces of the ram's slide ways. When in operation the ram is to float on the oil.

                  Next you want to level the shaper, using a good level sitting on the machined boss on the ram, where the ram lock lever or bolt is, leave the shaper alone for a week or so, recheck level again after a week. While your waiting, you can check to see if the table's gib is adjusted, where it is hung on the apron.

                  As you stated eariler this shaper is flat belt drive ( built before WWII), there will be wear along the apron ways. After the week is up, and the gibs are adjusted, and oiling the ram ways again, mount a dial indicator on the ram, and the dial tip on the table, you can hand crank the ram through it's stroke (the length of the table less an inch). Then traverse the table across the apron , checking dial readings (front to back of table) as you move the table, while cranking the ram. Let us know your readings.

                  My little 14S Elliott came from a high school envroment, it's table was sagging at the front. 005 to .006". After proper leveling and oiling, and adjusting the gibs, the table was with in .0005" all over. Placed the vise on the table and tightened down, laid some parallels along the jaws, the dial reading was .0001". No table resurfacing required.
                  Doug

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Evan
                    I just need to weld it to an arm and put a hand grip on it.
                    Down here in the lower 48 we use our teeth. Don't need no stinken badges or hand grips.
                    Last edited by Your Old Dog; 12-08-2006, 05:15 PM.
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                    • #11
                      Level a shaper?

                      OK....

                      But normally they are such a "block" that I find it hard to see how a slight off-level would hurt anything.

                      If you mounted it to the wall, maybe....
                      1601

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

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                      • #12
                        I figure it just needs the weight more or less evenly distributed on the base so it doesn't walk around like an unbalanced washing machine.

                        I was kinda thinking of setting it on square steel plates under the bolt holes in the base. The steel plates would be pairs with epoxy putty between them. They should squeeze out to the right degree to equalize the pressure on all of the pads and then set up at that point. That should compensate for any irregularity in the cement floor of my garage.
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                        • #13
                          That's right,

                          I said "level the shaper, if Evan's is a flat belt drive, the castings won't be as heavy as a shaper built with a positive gear or hydraulic drive. My 2" longer stroke 18" Elliott Major with double V belts driving a 6 speed gear box weight is just over 3000 lbs. "Evan's little Ranger No likey that kind of weight". Flat belts can't transfer the horse power that a set of V belts driving a geared transmission can. And even my manual recomends using a .003"/ 12" precision level.

                          Looking closely at your pic of your shaper Evan, it looks like there was a front foot on the table, and on the base at one time, as there are two machined pads where a front foot would be mounted, and the underneath front edge of the shaper table looks to be machined. If that is so, I would recomend building a simple front foot for your machine. The foot if used properly prevents the table from being pushed down during heavy cuts, as well because of the support given by the foot, the apron ways and gibs will under less wear.
                          Doug

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                          • #14
                            I'll be taking some more pics of the shaper and asking some more pointed questions in the future. This will wait until I have time to set it up. All advice on this is greatly appreciated as I have never operated a shaper and am not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of them.

                            It certainly isn't as heavy as 3000 lbs, not even close. I would guess around 1000 to 1300 lbs. I am going to make a load cell so I can weigh it. I think I will design it so it can go on the chain hoist business end. That seems like it would be a handy arrangement. I have a spare 0 to 2500 psi gauge so that the hard part is already done. It will match my one ton hoist nicely.
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                            • #15
                              Yes, You can resurface it with "itself".
                              I would not use a tool bit, but instead rig up a mounted die grinder and use a small cupwheel.. Make it rigid to the ram, ie no clapper.
                              Use a 40 pitch screw ( or finer) as a down feed stop.
                              feed down to the screw. then to lower the wheel more, you back the screw out ...slowly. you want a positive load against the stop at all times to eliminate error and vibration.
                              This will give very fine ( like .0003 ) downfeed moves.
                              Years ago when I lived in a small town in Ontario and there were no facilites, I got a lathe that was really worn on the outside carriage V ways.
                              The tail stock was never used, so I took the tailstock top off, and mounted a 45 degree angle plate to the base. then I removed the toolslide from the carraige and mounted it on the angle plate, allong with a die grinder.
                              Using a cylindrical wheel I ground both sides of each V.. till spark out. this gave me outside ways that were totally matched to the inside ways, and then I scraped to finish, which was more deco than work.
                              Just make sure the grinder has NO endplay

                              Rich

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