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Ford Axle Splines

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  • Ford Axle Splines

    Does anyone know the profile of the spline for a Ford 31 tooth splined axle?
    Thanks
    AJA
    Last edited by AJA; 01-05-2007, 08:18 PM. Reason: missing word

  • #2
    Yup...weirdscience here has done them. He should be along shortly.
    Also...if you go to the "pirate" bbs...there's a guy there (Duffy) who goes under the name D.D. Machine. He makes a cutter for verticle mills that used an insert. Not sure if he's still making them but the cutters where about $140 or so...I can't remember.
    Russ
    I have tools I don't even know I own...

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    • #3
      The DD machine cutter is for a 30 deg spline, like a Dana axle. I've got one, it works great. It uses TPG inserts.

      I haven't done and Ford 9" stuff yet, but my understanding is that the 9" uses 45 deg splines. You'd want something like a 45 degree chamfering mill that uses SPG inserts. Somebody let me know if I'm wrong on that.

      As far as Pirate goes, you have to buy a membership to use their search function. Google works for this too, and it's cheaper. Whatever you, don't show up on the Pirate4x4.com board and ask a question that has been asked 1000 time before on your first post
      Last edited by Nutter; 01-05-2007, 09:00 PM.

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      • #4
        Ford axle splines

        Thanks for the help guys. From what I can measure it is not a 45. I will try Google
        AJA

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        • #5
          Eh, what happened to my post? Was I dreaming that I responded earlier? I must have posted since Nutter appears to be responding to part of it regarding Pirate4x4 (and he's absolutely right). So did it get deleted? If so, why?
          Russ
          Master Floor Sweeper

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BadDog
            Eh, what happened to my post? Was I dreaming that I responded earlier? I must have posted since Nutter appears to be responding to part of it regarding Pirate4x4 (and he's absolutely right). So did it get deleted? If so, why?
            This topic got on here twice? Your post was deleted along with the duplicate?
            Gene

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BadDog
              Eh, what happened to my post? Was I dreaming that I responded earlier? I must have posted since Nutter appears to be responding to part of it regarding Pirate4x4 (and he's absolutely right). So did it get deleted? If so, why?
              Russ...Yer dreamin....you answered this over on the Chaski board...not here
              You're welcome!
              Russ
              I have tools I don't even know I own...

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              • #8
                (voice=Cheech Marin) Wow man, thought I was havin' flash backs or somethin'...
                Russ
                Master Floor Sweeper

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                • #9
                  Well...look what I found...Duffy is making 45* cutters now. For Ford/Toyota/14 bolt axles.
                  http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archi.../t-219732.html
                  I have tools I don't even know I own...

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                  • #10
                    Funny, I was just talking to a friend today about those very cutters.

                    Very neat little tool for those getting into custom axles. However, be aware that it is not perfect and is far inferior to top line custom axle shops which roll/hobb the splines. That produces a harder and tougher spline as well as a more accurate profile. However, as long as the spline is not the weakest point (say putting GM Corp 10.5" (14FF) axles into a Ford 9" or Dana 60 housing) or you are well into over kill territory anyway, then who cares?
                    Russ
                    Master Floor Sweeper

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BadDog
                      (voice=Cheech Marin) Wow man, thought I was havin' flash backs or somethin'...
                      ROFLAMO !
                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

                      It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

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                      • #12
                        There's a difference between "rolled" and "hobbed" splines. Hobbed are cut whereas rolled are embossed like a straight knurl. Both acheive the involute form profile via the rolling motion. But you cannot roll a form onto a hardened axle shaft! You must anneal; roll form; then re-heattreat! But you don't have to go through all of that to acheive a more than acceptable result from an already heattreated axle! You can cut or form grind the spline form! As far as the Ford 9" axles are concerned I have form ground many; both 28 and 31 spline. The pressure angle of the original rolled spline form is 43* for the 28 spline and 42* for the 31 spline. Many guys use Bridgeports with holders armed with the SPG431 inserts which are close enough at a 45* pressure angle. Even the top line production axle re-spliner in the States, Moser Engineering, mills the spline forms with square inserts. This is why their work, as well as everyone else's who trys milling the splines into a hardened axle, is chattered (and in many cases- badly chattered). The axles have a good hard .100" case on them! If you want to do a nice job on them- then form grind the splines! I use a spline grinding machine. But you can use a surface grinder also as long as the table is large or heavy enough to handle swinging the flange off the end.

                        Howard

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                        • #13
                          Should have said rolled OR hobbed, I know they are different, I just wasn’t clear. Rolled is always preferred to hobbed. Both get the correct form but only Rolled gets the other benefits. Oh well.

                          I like the idea of roughing it out and then form grinding the splines. Hmmm...

                          But I wouldn't call Moser "the top line axle respliner in the States". Far from it, they are a joke among the off-road crowd. Apparently their stuff works well in drag racing, it must have since it seems that's where they made their name, but searching Moser on any hard core rock crawling (among other) sites will show many problems with Moser axles (check Pirate4x4.com for one). Not only problems with breaking them, but what appear to be clear hardness problems (based on twisted splines and other pics posted), and also a complete lack of credibility on their “warranty”. As far as I’m aware, there is no motor sport out there that is harder on axles than rock crawling, and the serious rock crawlers don’t use Moser. I’m not saying this to be difficult or disagreeable, only to suggest that anyone who comes across this post do their homework VERY carefully before dealing with Moser. Superior and others make a far superior (pun) project based on what I’ve seen in AZ rock crawling (talking to the pros and amateurs who wheel out here) and read on the web (nation wide and beyond).

                          As for lack of criticality in the pressure angle, can’t say I would agree on that either, based on my limited research on the topic some years ago. But from your handle, it would seem that perhaps you likely know more than I do on the matter, so I’ll leave it at that.

                          Hmmm, it now dawns on me that you may just be talking about ONLY re-splining, such as what an HSM would do in their home shop. Not the rest of the process required for superior work (anealing, heat treat, and proper shaft form to reduce stress risers), or the alloy axles which are reportedly junk. If so, then I suppose that maybe they can do as good a job as a HSM can do. I’m in the market now for a set of the high zoot “alloy axles” for my Dana 60 (which snaps Dana 70 shafts like tooth picks) and Moser is NOT on my list of potential vendors. Superior, USA Alloys, and even the Yukon imports are regarded much more highly. Seems I read Moser was getting out of that market anyway, maybe they did? I really want the Superiors since they always roll and make what is regarded as THE best axle among those I've spoken with, but they also come with THE biggest price tag! USA Alloy is quite a bit cheaper, with a top notch warranty rep, so I may go with them...
                          Last edited by BadDog; 01-09-2007, 01:05 PM.
                          Russ
                          Master Floor Sweeper

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                          • #14
                            Or you could just pick up this little beauty and hack the splines yerself
                            http://cgi.ebay.ca/HP-TOWNSEND-MODEL...QQcmdZViewItem
                            I have tools I don't even know I own...

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                            • #15
                              Hell it's a cake walk to re-spline axles,I don't even do it anymore since Moser and others do it so cheap and it's stone boring.I never did anything fancy,I just single point fly cut them with a braxed point tool profiled to fit the existing spline.It's slow,but effective and doesn't cost a ton of money.

                              Indexing,the best Idea I ever got was from our own David Cofer,use an old spider gear to index the new spline before cutting off the old.Them old boys from Gawja is smart.

                              The Dana and Ford axles are dead soft in the center an cased about .100" deep on the radius.This is the proper way to build an axle or gear,soft in the cent to take shock and hard on the outside to tolerate wear and reduce deformation.

                              The trick to making a good axle after a respline would be to re-harden them.That requires an induction hardening setup and I don't have the time.

                              We don't see many re-splining jobs here anymore,everybody serious is running full floaters and the street rod guys are now old and building cruisers.
                              I just need one more tool,just one!

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