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Evan: What is the name of the super slippery stuf you told us about a while back.

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  • Evan
    replied
    PDMS doesn't work the same in that respect. By changing the conditions under which it is formulated the viscosity can be changed. It doesn't rely on any fillers or soaps to change viscosity.

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  • pcarpenter
    replied
    There is a common misconception with petroleum lubricants that may or may not be applicable here as well.

    Often, thick grease is presumed to mean a higher viscosity lubricant. In point of fact, grease is oil with a thickening agent that is used to "hold" the oil. There are various thickness gradings for grease (NLGI 1,2, etc.) that reference the viscosity of the grease, but this is separate from the viscosity of the oil that went into that grease. Grease gives up its lubricant to the part being lubricated and it is important to note the viscosity of the oil that will be liberated to the part, separate from the viscosity of the grease itself. In short, the viscosity of the soap thickener may seem to imply more viscosity of the base oil the grease contains, but not necessarily.

    If you look at the spec sheets for most greases, they will tell you the viscosity of the base oil. Grease is grease is not really the case, and it is worth making sure you get the right stuff for the application at hand.

    Paul

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  • Evan
    replied
    Are you saying that all these products are basically the same thing in differnt viscosities?
    No, not exactly. There are many different formulations that go by different names but they all contain a similar molecular structure.

    Silicone fuser oil is polydimethylsiloxane and that is one of the most widely used formulations.

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  • Evan
    replied
    The FDA study isn't the only one to draw a statistically signifcant correlation between silicone oil and FMS and/or connective tissue disorders. There is a fairly large study in Holland that found the same thing and one in Denmark too.

    I am well aware that correlation does not prove causation. It does however give a strong indication that there may be a connection whereas a lack of correlation generally does prove the absence of causation.


    The main problem is the very low prevalence of FMS in men. The diagnosed rate in men in Canada is approximately 1 in 1000 males. This would of course include any cases that may have been induced by exposure to causative factors. With such a rate the number of cases to be expected among the population of Xerox service reps (predominately male) would be less than 2 to 4 nation wide.

    In order to find a correlation it would be necessary to have access to the medical records of all the employees of the company including those who did have exposure and similar employees that didn't.

    My exposure in the first ten years of employment was considerable as no precautions were taken to avoid exposure and the machines in use then used the stuff by the gallons. I would commonly carry around a couple of gallons of the oil in my spare parts and dealt with it every day. Cleaning up leaks and minor spills (on a drop cloth with an impervious mylar layer) was a common occurence. In the first decade of my employment the company did not supply us with protective gloves and nobody I knew used any. The material was considered completely harmless.

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  • Wirecutter
    replied
    Wait a minute. I still have questions about this lube stuff.

    I recently dismantled a Minolta color laser printer. The printer itself was of poor design, hard to maintain, and expensive to keep in consummables. It did have lots of neat mechanicals I kept, and finally, it used the aforementioned fuser oil.

    I've also installed a hydraulic brake on my electric gokart, which uses Dot 5 (silicone based) brake fluid. Damn slippery stuff, and hard to get rid of or clean off of anything.

    Finally, years ago when I worked with oceanographic equipment, we used to grease the sealing o-rings with Dow high-vacuum silicone grease. Not really as a lube, but as a sealing component - that high-vacuum grease was really not a good lubricant. It was used because it wouldn't boil in an vacuum or in the presence of similar pressure differential.

    Are you saying that all these products are basically the same thing in differnt viscosities? (Well, the fuser oil and the brake fluid are about the same, IIRC.) Are you saying that I could have, for example, saved myself a trip to the auto parts store and used fuser oil in my gokart brake? I find that very interesting.

    Oh, and thanks for the new and fascinating info and the thread.

    -Mark

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  • pcarpenter
    replied
    I think the first question is: "Is it information or mis-associated disinformation" I am not trying to suggest either, but it is important to determine whether there is true cause and effect or not. I am sure one to want to know if something I am doing or did was a bad idea so I don't repeat it, but it is important to be able to identify true cause and effect.

    I showered this morning and then had coffee when I got to work....come to think of it, I shower every morning, and have coffee every morning....I wonder if showering causes coffee drinking

    Fortunately, not everything that ends up being toxic if injected penetrates the epidermis or we would be in serious trouble. Ruptured implants put large volumes of silicone gel inside human tissue. Ingestion quantities of stuff from our hands is pretty small. Still, who knows?

    I did PC and printer repair for a decade or so before I started administering servers and had plenty of contact with slimy fuser wipers and even some spilled fuser oil. I don't think I have fibromyalgia in spite of aches and pains and feeling tired a lot...but who knows. I also aged a couple of decades, so it is hard to separate things that develop from aging from things that may be exposure related. I probably didn't deal with it in the volumes you did, however Evan.

    Paul

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    I was going to say forget xerox and go right to the horses mouth --- but if you do that then you have to get past the manufacturers cover ups so maybe a bad idea, I just went to the garage to check out the ingredients in armor-all but i only have turtle wax 2001 protectant and it does not give the ingredients, still i think i will wear gloves when aplying to my car interior -----
    Evan --- you need to check into other places that have used this stuff to the extreme, i bet there are places that had much more worker exposure than what you had and tons of people for a data base ----- I told you before that if you cant find it nobody can, you are the best info hound in the bizz, I hope you find some information that helps you with your condition --- gotta keep you around to be able to butt heads with you now and then
    That being said im also on a quest for my niece who has MS, if anybody knows of any "on the fringe" treatment theories let me know, she's probably tried it already but you never know, being ill sucks, iv had a taste of it and dont like it when i hear about others who are suffering, one of the things that amazes me about this day and age is we got space probes landing on other planets and sending back pictures and all kinds of info yet we cant stop these little things right under our microscopes and/or cant figure out the chemistry
    The one thing i learned about being sick --- take action and keep the hope, and dont ever let it go...

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  • Evan
    replied
    Yes, that is what I have been thinking. I have no idea how to go about it. I have been out of the company for 9 years and have few connections left in the company.

    Hmm. I do have one idea. There is/was a website run by and for current and former employees of Xerox in North America. It never mentions Xerox by name but I think I can find it if it still exists.

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  • john hobdeclipe
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    Now the question is, what do I do with this information?
    Continue your research, get all the facts straight, build a strong case.

    It would be good if you could make a sufficiently strong claim to zerox and others that would allow you to get some form of compensation.

    You also have a chance now to save others from this same problem. If indeed the connection can be proven...a true cause / effect relationship, then this needs to be publicized.

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  • Evan
    replied
    start finding out who else who worked with you or doing the same thing has a problem
    That is unfortunately nearly impossible. I worked here in what is a remote one man territory. I didn't have any coworkers that I could easily track down, especially from 20 or 30 years ago. As well, even if silicone oil is correlated with FMS in men it is still a rare condition in men. The sample size wouldn't be nearly large enough. Also, FMS has only been recognized as a true not-a-figment-of-your-imagination condition for the last ten years or so. It is only in recent times that they have found real (but subtle) internal physical changes that are associated with the condition.

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Originally posted by thistle
    Now the question is, what do I do with this information?

    start finding out who else who worked with you or doing the same thing has a problem .[/QUOTE]



    Thats useing your head bro... Maybe call up a few old co-workers?

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    You never know Evan, it could be the contributing factor --- Im told that a Dermatoligist looks at skin a little defferently than most folk, lots of us see it as a barrier but they tend to see it as a "sponge" Our skin is our largest organ and when coated with a substance the substance generally goes systemic... I think your on to something, I also know that candida is somewhat linked to fibromyalgia and if its intestinal there is another area of vast surface area to consider, One thing for sure - silicone is not harmless to the body, there is to much evidence otherwise, it's destroyed allot of lives...

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  • thistle
    replied
    Now the question is, what do I do with this information?[/QUOTE]


    start finding out who else, that was doing the same thing , has a problem .

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  • Evan
    replied
    !

    This has turned out to be an extremely interesting thread for me, to say the least.

    Last night when I was rummaging around my server files looking for the pic of the inflated mammaries a small niggling sensation developed in my frontal lobes (I mean brain ).

    Anyway, I did some research. Silicone gel was used for a long time to fill breast implants and as most are aware a great deal of controversy surrounds the possible safety of introducing this material into the body, enough so that it cost Dow Corning a great deal of money.

    It is very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff on this issue as there are a lot of people out there with an agenda.

    What I did find is of great personal interest to me and very relevant. The FDA financed a study that concluded in 2001. In a nutshell, it found that women with leaking breast implants filled with silicone oil had a ~ 3 times higher rate of fibromyalgia. There seems to be a very statistically significant correlation between long term exposure to leaking implants and fibromyalgia, but only implants filled with silicone gel, not saline.

    I have fibromyalgia, an invisible and disabling condition that is very uncommon in men. I was exposed to silicone oil on a daily basis for 23 years. My hands would sometimes be drenched in the stuff and without doubt some of it made it into my body on food etc because it is so difficult to clean off. The first symptoms of fibromyalgia began to show up in the mid '80s when I had been employed by Xerox for some ten years already. Back then fibromyalgia was not an accepted diagnosis and my doctors had no idea what the problem was.

    Now the question is, what do I do with this information?
    Last edited by Evan; 01-10-2007, 09:56 AM.

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  • mike petree
    replied
    I wipe down my kids sliding board with the stuff. Just a tiny bit on a paper towel and it's off to the races!

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