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Evan: What is the name of the super slippery stuf you told us about a while back.

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  • pcarpenter
    replied
    Regarding the use of polydimethylsiloxane (sp?) on machine tools....I did find one good use for it deep in the internals of my milling machine head.

    As I was putting my BP mill vari-speed drive motor sheaves back on the spindle, I thought that a tiny dose of that on the spindle might be just the ticket. It's slicker than snot and will do the job with just a tiny film. For those who are familiar with this assembly, one sheave moves up and down on the motor spindle to change diameter of the pulley pair. This sheave half has a plastic bushing in it that is epoxied in place (along with a plastic key) to minimize wear on the spindle. That cuts down on the number of things that might be a valid lubricant due to risk of damage of the plastic. You can use them dry, but reducing friction should increase their life.

    I still don't have the mill finished, so cannot comment on functionality, but likely I will not know if it was a worthwhile move for many years.

    Paul

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  • JCHannum
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    I am sure the manuacturing process is totally automated. The packaging for the products I used was extremely well sealed because of the high potential for migration and slipping problems if it leaked. I doubt if the people involved in the manufacture have any exposure as it is 99.99999% non-volatile.
    It is pretty obvious you have not spent too much time in a manufacturing environment. Things spill, slop, splash, stop, break, burst, leak, jam and drip ad nauseum. Then the maintenance crew, and/or the line operating personell have to wade in (often quite literally) and put it right, BTDT. The exposure is real and full time.

    Other potentially high exposure risks would be those involved in the secondary market. That is those involved in using the bulk material to manufacture formulations other than full strength. The Rain-X production people for instance.

    It may or may not be contributary to FMS, but there are certainly a lot more people available to provide a sample than only end users such as Xerox techs.

    I have a can of it here that I got from a lab tech where I previously worked, they got it for trial in a product, and gave it to me when it was no longer needed. It is a plain old, screw cap "tin" can.

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  • Evan
    replied
    I am sure the manuacturing process is totally automated. The packaging for the products I used was extremely well sealed because of the high potential for migration and slipping problems if it leaked. I doubt if the people involved in the manufacture have any exposure as it is 99.99999% non-volatile ( I didn't make up the nines...). This was a very important consideration because even traces on optics destroy the function. That was a "bug" that was frequently used in training classes to show the importance of preventing migration via cleaning cloths. All cleaning cloths were bagged and disposed after one use.

    It would be interesting to know if there are other occupations where routine exposure occurs, especially ones that employ a significant number of women. Until fairly recently the Xerox service rep force was around 95% male. That was in spite of considerable effort on the part of the company to recruit females.

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  • JCHannum
    replied
    I would think that any relation between PDMS and FMS or anything else could be rather easily determined by studying those directly involved in the manufacture, blending and packaging of the various products. Their exposure would be much higher than that of the end user.

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  • Evan
    replied
    I don't think polydimethylsiloxane poses any significant hazard in casual use such a Rain-X or occasional use in other products. If it did there would be unequivocal evidence of the hazard. My exposure was typical only of service reps working on particular models of machines. In many cases service reps would not have been exposed much or at all depending on the product lines they worked on. This combined with the rarity of FMS in males makes it impossible to draw statistically valid conclusions without an enormous sample size.

    It will be interesting to see what my doctor has to say about it when I see her tomorrow morning.

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  • Sophiedoc
    replied
    Things we get exposed to that may kill us (or not)

    In WW2 Monsanto used a chemical in the war effort which was then sent to Virginia.No one used gloves then.Regular exposure increased incidence of bladder cancer up to 50% of those exposed and very limited exposure also upped the chances.I've acquired what I believe is FMS in my old days.Being a male and old I have to believe the death of my only son somehow triggered this. A book by a Harvard rehab Doc (John Sarno M.D.) is a very good read.

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  • Evan
    replied
    No way I would use silicone lubes on my machine tools. I might want to paint the machine or something I make on it someday. The Rain-X works great on snow plow blades though.

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  • garyphansen
    replied
    Evan: Would you consider using this to lub the clampping bar that holds down the back side of the saddle of your South Bend Lathe, or would you just use teflon grease? Gary P. Hansen

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  • Evan
    replied
    I was going to mention that. It's... wait for it...
    Polydimethylsiloxane.

    They won't admit it on the MSDS but it says on the bottle (I have one in front of me) that it contains "siloxanes" and provides the CAS#. That happens to be 63148-62-9.

    Super-Low Viscosity
    (Volatile) Silicones

    Viscosities:
    0.65cSt Hexamethyldisiloxane (CAS# 107-46-0)
    1cSt Octamethyltrisiloxane (CAS# 107-51-7)
    1.5cSt Decamethyltetrasiloxane (CAS# 141-62-8) / Dodecamethylpentasiloxane (CAS# 141-63-9)
    3cSt Polydimethylsiloxanes (63148-62-9) / Dodecamethylpentasiloxane (CAS# 141-63-9)

    http://www.clearcoproducts.com/stand...silicones.html

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  • SGW
    replied
    Speaking of slippery stuff...and "safe" things that may turn out to be dangerous...does anybody know what the magic ingredient in Rain-X window treatment is? ( www.rainx.com )

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Evan- slippery stuff

    Evan.

    I simply Googled ' FMS and silicon' as an after thought after bunging in my comments about tracing contacts from the past.

    Nothing is easy to live with.

    Norm

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  • Evan
    replied
    You live near one of the biggest cities.


    You really must visit some time Norman. "Near" is a very relative term here. When I say "just down the road" around here that includes anything within a 100 kilometer radius. Vancouver is a 14 hour round trip distant from here and that's at 110km per hour.

    no not impossible , mention keywords such as silicon , fms ,xerox ect ect here enough and it will start climbing up the the google list so that someone else might pick up the thread.

    also i am sure there must be a online group who deals with this disorder, some one konws something somewhere
    Maybe. There is a men's support group online for FMS sufferers. I never even bothered posting there. What a bunch of whingers. Each one trying to outdo the next with how bad their symptoms are.

    The biggest problem with FMS in men is that it is so uncommon. They have no idea what causes it in women other than some correlations with traumatic medical events or infections and as I have now discovered, possible exposure to PDMS.

    The main problem is trying to study it in men. With a prevalence of only 0.1% you need a population of at least several million to find enough participants to do a study. The very few studies that have been done with men have very small sample sizes but do indicate that the condition presents quite differently than in women. This is very likely because of hormonal differences. Because the prevalence in men is so low it has a very low priority for funding studies of FMS in men.

    Who knows? Maybe it is in part so much more prevalent in women (ten times more common) because they make so many more of the photocopies and are more often responsible for looking after the copiers in the office, especially in the 1950s to 1980s. It's only in the last 15 years that it has been formally recognized at all and only in the last ten that definitive biological differences have been found associated with the condition.
    Last edited by Evan; 01-10-2007, 03:44 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Evan- slippery stuff

    Not always the very unserious character but I was able to trace people exactly 50 years earlier. I doubt that the same will apply but I set off to trace names. Do the people appear say in a newspaper or trade paper which you could access? Does Canada have a point where names adds and numbers appear as in a large-ish public library? You live near one of the biggest cities. Do you have recent census returns which can be accessed?
    Do you have a CD with all the phone numbers etc? Do you have rating information or voters lists?

    The foregoing is what I did. Remember that my quest was officially denied by
    HM Government and the Metropolitan Police and that it never happened.

    Evan, you only need to solve one or two names and the rest opens up like a book. The pieces finally start to come together like a jigsaw.

    So almost 60 years now and someone has said " Norman , will you write the story of your RAF Squadron in 1948-50 when you were there" Remember again that the records were destroyed because the place had one face and a secret face underneath it. Maybe, there was yet another level of secrecy but
    things like 'Heavy Water' and sabotage schools emerge.
    I can do it and you can. You only need a beginning- no matter how tiny.

    Good luck. You have the brain to succeed.

    Norm

    PS you do know that a survey of 1000 sufferers has been conducted?
    Last edited by Norman Atkinson; 01-10-2007, 03:15 PM.

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  • ttok
    replied
    What to do!

    Evan - Contact the law firm of Dewey, Cheatam & Howe before the two year statute of limitations expires! A.T.

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  • thistle
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    That is unfortunately nearly impossible. I worked here in what is a remote one man territory. I didn't have any coworkers that I could easily track down, especially from 20 or 30 years ago. As well, even if silicone oil is correlated with FMS in men it is still a rare condition in men. The sample size wouldn't be nearly large enough. Also, FMS has only been recognized as a true not-a-figment-of-your-imagination condition for the last ten years or so. It is only in recent times that they have found real (but subtle) internal physical changes that are associated with the condition.


    no not impossible , mention keywords such as silicon , fms ,xerox ect ect here enough and it will start climbing up the the google list so that someone else might pick up the thread.

    also i am sure there must be a online group who deals with this disorder, some one konws something somewhere

    Leave a comment:

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