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Noise at higher RPM's with older Enco Varispeed Mill head

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  • Noise at higher RPM's with older Enco Varispeed Mill head

    Hi everyone, I have the chance to pick up an older Enco Mill with a varispeed head. I can get it for $500.00. Everything seems in good condition except when I cranked the speed up over 3000 RPM's, at this point I can hear a noise that maybe caused by an old belt. The spindle turns smoothly by hand so I am hoping it's just the belt. The owner says it will last me a life time but I have no experience with this type of head. If it does need rebuilt do any of you have an idea of the cost involved in parts?

    I am going to take pictures of it shortly here and will post them later.

    TIA

    Bob
    Bob
    Pics of shop and some projects
    http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

  • #2
    I'm not specifically familiar with the Enco drive, but if it uses a single belt between two variable diameter sheaves like my Burke, a worn belt makes an odd squeak which actually resembles a dry bearing. If convenient, get the belt number and compare the new width with the current width of the installed belt. A decrease in diameter of more than 1/16 inch is enough to make it noisy. Another test is to see if the spindle speed varies over the entire range of adjustment. If it stays the same on either the slow or high end, you likely have a worn-out belt.

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    • #3
      Whatcha milling at 3k rpm? The point about the belt is a potential issue and about a $80 solution if that is what is wrong. If it's like the BP, you can pull the top half cover of the VS head without too terrible much difficulty. I would look for grooves worn in the VS head sheaves...if so, the parts could be a bit pricey...if running that fast is important to you.

      There are lots of bearings in these variable speed heads. Nearly all but the spindle bearings are relatively inexpensive. You may want to try to locate the noise to figure out just what you are getting into. If it is one of the close copies of the BP design, you can find a BP manual on line in .pdf format that will have a cutaway diagram showing just where all the bearings lie.

      I have my Bridgeport VS head mostly still apart at this point, you can email me if you wish, if you have questions.

      Paul
      Paul Carpenter
      Mapleton, IL

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Chipmaker, all the speeds seem to change both in low and high range.
        I can spin the spindle in neutral and it is quiet and smooth. It really sounds like a rough bearing someplace but not in the spindle and yes the drive is set up like you describe. The rest of the machine seems in good shape and the power down feed works. I will need to get a new DRO and table drive and a VFD to run the 3 hp 3 phase motor that is on it.

        Here are some pics I just took of it.









        Guess I will put the dovetail column mill I have on ebay this evening.
        Bob
        Pics of shop and some projects
        http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pcarpenter
          Whatcha milling at 3k rpm? The point about the belt is a potential issue and about a $80 solution if that is what is wrong. If it's like the BP, you can pull the top half cover of the VS head without too terrible much difficulty. I would look for grooves worn in the VS head sheaves...if so, the parts could be a bit pricey...if running that fast is important to you.

          There are lots of bearings in these variable speed heads. Nearly all but the spindle bearings are relatively inexpensive. You may want to try to locate the noise to figure out just what you are getting into. If it is one of the close copies of the BP design, you can find a BP manual on line in .pdf format that will have a cutaway diagram showing just where all the bearings lie.

          I have my Bridgeport VS head mostly still apart at this point, you can email me if you wish, if you have questions.

          Paul
          Paul, guess I am not sure if I will be using it at that high of speed. Just noted that once I got above that speed it seemed to become noisy. The DRO doesn't work and neither does the added on x axis table feed. Everthing else seems to work ok and for $500.00 I will probably get it. I have looked for several years here in the mid Michigan area and haven't been able to find a decent deal on a knee mill. This one sure is beefy with lots of heavy castings.
          Bob
          Pics of shop and some projects
          http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

          Comment


          • #6
            At a guess I would say the sliding pulley half on the motor shaft is worn out on the ID and the key is most likely bad too. The sliding pulley half on the output side could have bad bushings too. While have never had an Enco apart they can't be that much difference from a Bridgy. Bridgeport uses those cheap plastic sleeves as replacement parts. The new ones are only about 15 to 20 thou thick. Plus they use a key with a nylon surface on it to promote smoother motion. The one on the motor can be removed without taking the motor off IIRC. On a BP you need a couple of long #8 or 10 screws to collapse the sping in order to get the snap ring off.
            Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

            Comment


            • #7
              That looks like a "Well-setting " power feed for the X-axis. I have one also on my Taiwan BP clone. There doesn't seem to be any parts available for them . Mine has a stripped out bottom gear..... Odd thing is My boss had one sitting on the shelf amongst all his "Stuff" that he let me have for a real good price. Looks like New , old stock.... So if you are interested in my old one you may have it for shipping costs.....it is in bad shape but it runs. The case has been broken and repaired , but as I said it works..... you may be able to strip parts out of it to get yours running, I am in the Detroit area. Let me know if you are interested.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Uncle O
                That looks like a "Well-setting " power feed for the X-axis. I have one also on my Taiwan BP clone. There doesn't seem to be any parts available for them . Mine has a stripped out bottom gear..... Odd thing is My boss had one sitting on the shelf amongst all his "Stuff" that he let me have for a real good price. Looks like New , old stock.... So if you are interested in my old one you may have it for shipping costs.....it is in bad shape but it runs. The case has been broken and repaired , but as I said it works..... you may be able to strip parts out of it to get yours running, I am in the Detroit area. Let me know if you are interested.
                Uncle thanks for the offer and I sure will take you up on it if I get this one. The gears are fine on this one but they have a circuit board hanging loose. Sounds like between the two I can make a good one.))

                I am listing my bench top dovetail mill on ebay this evening. Thats where I sold my round column one 3 years ago and I think this one will go fast. I give you a shout.

                Thanks again
                Bob
                Bob
                Pics of shop and some projects
                http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spin Doctor
                  At a guess I would say the sliding pulley half on the motor shaft is worn out on the ID and the key is most likely bad too. The sliding pulley half on the output side could have bad bushings too. While have never had an Enco apart they can't be that much difference from a Bridgy. Bridgeport uses those cheap plastic sleeves as replacement parts. The new ones are only about 15 to 20 thou thick. Plus they use a key with a nylon surface on it to promote smoother motion. The one on the motor can be removed without taking the motor off IIRC. On a BP you need a couple of long #8 or 10 screws to collapse the sping in order to get the snap ring off.

                  Spin Doctor sounds like you have some experience with this head. Thanks for the info. After talking again with the owner a few minutes ago he and his son hadn't had the speed about 2200 in the 10 years they have had it. Like I said it is pretty quiet below the 3000 mark. I am hoping I can get by with it as is till spring.

                  Thanks
                  Bob
                  Bob
                  Pics of shop and some projects
                  http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    my experance with enco mills they good new feed unit $350.00 . New belts in head replace both while you in it and you may need a new bearing or two 20-30 dollars each .Know big deal. Figuare at most $600.00 for parts milllooks good 500.00 dam good price Buy it . I would even if I did not need it . $500.00 + 600.00 = $1100.00 Sell it $3500.00 good profit for a weeks work.
                    Last edited by lane; 01-19-2007, 09:28 PM.
                    Every Mans Work Is A Portrait of Him Self
                    http://sites.google.com/site/machinistsite/TWO-BUDDIES
                    http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lan...?sort=3&page=1

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Chances are the belt is just fine. They last a very ling time when enclosed in a case and protected against oil and dirt.

                      Get access to the belt and rub a little bar soap on the belt edges. The soap acts to remove the squeak and add a little stiction. Alternative a little bar soap solution shot on the pulleys and belt with a laundry squirt bottle will work but don't load the drive until the water has evaporated. A run through the speeds with the drive unloaded will help dry and spread the soap where it will do the most good.

                      Not a sure cure but one that's worked in automotive and industrial belts since day one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I figured I would try that first Forest and thanks. I had to do that on the old PowerMatic 6 x 12 surface grinder I just got. The belt wasn't dried out but sure was noisy. A little soap fixed it right up.
                        Bob
                        Pics of shop and some projects
                        http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bob,
                          I have tried twice to respond to your e-mail both direct and through
                          the boards, both have been kicked back.

                          So, if you come around the I-75 & I-696 area you are welcome to stop by and pick up the drive motor.

                          Or I can box it up and ship it to you, but I need an address.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok..not sure whats up with that. I have my mill on ebay right now and have been getting emails pretty regularly from there.


                            The guy I bought my Enco Mill from had a Cheviliar Mill with the head tore apart. I stopped and looked at it on my way out and the gave it to me. Its a basket case for sure but I am picking that one up also..))
                            Bob
                            Pics of shop and some projects
                            http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...achine%20Shop/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Iv never had an enco apart or anything like that but i think Spin Doc and some of the other sugestions are good ones, One of the things i would check into is totally different though and may not be your problem because i dont think it would act up at your kind of RPM's but its worht thinking about --- the combination of "dry" non lubricated quill drive splines and belt deviation can cause anything from a rattle to a high speed chatter sound, if the belt is deviated it sends the spindle whipping at a greater speed and then de-accels, this leaves the dry splines with a fore and aft "clash" ,,, The way to test this is to apply some grease to the drive splines...

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