Boric Acid???

[Dean Head]

Has anyone had the experience of getting boric acid insect dust on their machines. Our exterminator got a little carried away and I found a thin film on the ways of my lathe and mill. I removed it with an oil rag but was wondering if that is enough. Next time I will certainly cover the machines. Thoughts?
Thanks
Dean

[Tom Kaye]

Boric acid, although technically an acid does not react with metals as muratic or other mineral acids. A dilute solution was used as an eye wash. It does however attract mositure, that could promote rust.
As boric acid is used in bug killers for roaches, your lathe is now free from the roach doom. Tom

[Oso]

It is also a main ingredient in flame retardants like "NoChar", as I understand it.
Mix some up and spray a bit on paper. Try to light it.
I saw it done, and the paper didn't light passing it through a torch flame. It just had before spraying. (and it wasn't enough to get it very wet).

So at least your machines won't burn......

[thistle]

a saturated solution of borax and boric acid will kill insects ie temites and fungus in wood , i treated my work benches and some furniture with it , no rot and no termites so far -
fairly non toxic to humans and cheap- you can really spice it up and make it even more potent with the addition of antifreeze,but that is very toxic to humans and especially small animals,

[Thrud]

thistle:
Proplylene Glycol is essentially non-toxic to humans and pets. I do not know if it would have the same effect on entomlogical subjects - it may still be toxic to them. I do know that it is used as a green wood preservative.

[BC21OSH]

Thrud,

Antifreeze is extremely toxic to animals. There are warnings against letting it spill or accumulate on a drive way for that reason. It apparantly is sweet and must taste good to animals as well.

Bernard

[Dave Opincarne]

Dave, I respect your opinion a lot and you're right, 1,2 propanediol (propylene glycol) is considered non toxic but I think your post lacks the careful consideration you are so well known for . Ethlyene Glycol is the active ingredient in most antifreeze and is most definitly toxic and as Bernard suggests it is often injested because it does have a sweet taste which atracts children and animals. Your post is dangerous since it may give others the impresion that their antifreeze is safe when extrem caution is advised. I don't allow our dogs or my daughter outside when the cooling system is being worked on.

[Stepside]

You be Most Anti-Freeze is toxic. We just had a local crook (Sold thousands of dollars in stolen software when he worked for MicroSoft) commit suicide by drinking a bunch of it. It took about a week to die from multiple organ failure.

[Oso]

Local woman killed several husbands by spiking their beer with it. Got them with kidney failure, over months of time. That was ETHYLENE glycol.

I guess that nasty skunky american beer covered up the sweet taste.

BTW, unscrupulous french and Italian winemakers were putting a bit into their products at one time. I dunno just why, but anyhow they did it and got nailed for it.

[Quick Change]

Ethylene glycol is toxic to animala and humans. It takes very little to cause death, 15 ml of 50:50 antifreesze:water to kill a 10 lb cat and 132 ml of the same solution to kill a 20 lb dog. It is toxic in two ways:
1) Ethylene glycol is first metabolized using the same enzyme in the liver as for grain alcohol to glycolic acid which causes severe upsets in the body's acid-base balance.

2) Glycolic acid is further metabolized to formic acid, Co2, glycine, serine, and oxalate. The oxalate is a big problem in that it combines with calcium in the urine to precipitate as calcium oxalate in the small tubules of the kidney. This plugs up both kidneys and causes kidney failure.

Treatment,if soon enough, uses ethanol (grain alcohol) to compete with the ethylene glycol metabolism or a alcohol dehydrogenase inhibitor, to slow down the EG degradation pathway sufficiently to let the body handle the metabolites in small amounts. If the kidneys are already shut down -- bad news!

[thistle]

oops think isent this thread way off topic ,
i find the morerusty old tools i add to the base ment the more termite and rot filled wooden things go with them so i have to fix this to fix that andso on
boric acid boarax is cheap wayto kill bugsand rot
and feel safer dosing everyything in that than with some ridiculously overpriced brand of woodpreservative that gives off horriblefumes for months in the not very well ventilated dungeon as the wife calls it

think i should have added that furniture and workbenches that have been soaked with boric acid/ borax mix dont show anyreaction with steel fasteners after a couple of years in fairly humid conditions .

the bottle of antifreeze has lots of warnings on it .

there is another something or another glycol that comes in a waxy form that you dissolve in water to soak wood in to prevent the collapse of the cell walls in wood that has been under water along time ,
or for wood turning , that is fairly non toxic.

[Thrud]

Dave

Sorry about that! I guess I was not specific enough in what I was saying. YES - Ethylene Glycol is toxic.

And yes, there are pure Proplyene Glycols on the market - Amsoil makes one but it is expensive ($20/US gallon here). Amsoils has been approved by the insurance companies up here for underfloor heating systems because it is pure Propylene Glycol and essentially non-biohazardous. It has other admirable properties such as nuecleate boiling (boiling at the molecular level) and a high heat tranfer coeffeccient as well as low electrochemical interaction.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 03-30-2003).]

[Thrud]

Quick Change:

Talk dirty again! All that chemical reaction talk is getting me excited...

I had my kidneys and liver shut down from lactic acidosis as a near fatal reaction to Metformin - I enjoyed my coma...

[Quick Change]

A Test:

Name one organ system found in the human body that Thrud has NOT yet had trouble with.

[This message has been edited by Quick Change (edited 03-30-2003).]

[Oso]

His brain seems to be working fine..........