NO to politics, religion, etc topics

[ShavingMaker]

I really wish this BBS would not get into politics, religion, gun rights, etc. because these subjects are not based on exchange of ideas, discussion and compromise. They are base on non-compromising beliefs, not capable of discussion, only argumentative, and the only result is the next level of dislike, even hatred.
I make it a policy to never get into these subjects with relatives, friends, coworkers, or anybody I want to maintain good relationships with. Everybody goes away mad.
As a result of these "discussions" on this BBS, there are many members whose shops I wanted to visit in the past, but who I now never want to meet. The BBS has been hurt, and I would like to see it return to machining topics only.

[DR]

Hi Shave',

I totally agree with you.

There are times I wish boards were moderated. And this is one of those times.

IMO, if a topic would not be appropriate for HSM, then it's not appropriate here.

Please stay on topic.

[Tibertus]

Testify brothers, testify.

Peace

[docsteve66]

I agree almost completly with you guys. But the topics you just posted are not on machining (execpt perhaps in your opinions). In the furure will you gents please post to me for my review and comments before posting to board?

The cure to all these wild postings on subjects not machinig related is to allow me to define what EXACTLY will be discussed. Then we can have civil, correct views expressed and no one will be unjustly offfended (note UNJUSTLY is the keyword). May i have, in the spirit of compromise, and good fellowship ,all your none machining posts for prior review and possible censoring?

Shavingmaker: If you had just said "I really wish this BBS would not get into politics, religion, gun rights, etc." you would have had a defensible point/position. But when you add " because these subjects are not based on exchange of ideas, discussion and compromise." you have done exactly what you would ask the rest of us to do. LOgically not acceptable to ANY reasonable, right thinks, red blooded, rational, whiskey drinking, pipe smoking left handed male!!!! and explain how (you don't have to submit this to me because i have asked the question of you) how you "compromise" with out discussion?

I have noticed, for the last 50 years, that a lot of people havewhat they think are fine ideas, those ideas when presneted to a captive audience (such as studnets) are accpted and become "truth" to almost every one. The same ideas, presented in a forum of dissenting equals, are easlily revelaed as unworthy and impracticlal, and dependant on a non thinkning audience- which is easy to get after a few generations of people who have not been exposed to the the four r's (reading, riting, rithmatic and rational logic).
So far as "discussions" and not wanting to visit the holders of disenting view points- are you two gents really so bigoted that you would refuse to drink coffee with me? Shades of 1962 (when the north invaded the south again {first illegal invasion was 1862} to destroy practices that were nation wide at the time and made illegal only after the changes were forced upoin the weaker. Now you shun some of us for our statements? Shame upon you!!!
Now you guys figure out how much of what you tow and I have said that we really believe in and how much has been said to make a point that is not defensible!!
Steve

[lynnl]

Well said Steve!

I won't fall on my sword either way over the issue of whether this BBS content be restricted strictly to machining related subject matter. But I do feel that's a decision for Village Press. I kinda think most of us prefer latitude in discussing what we choose. I am puzzled tho why one would not simply choose to just bypass and ignore unappealing discussions. I suspect the real issue is not so much 'content' but the "spirited" responses some discussions invoke. But here again, it seems to me the most rational reaction would be to just ignore it, or read it with detached amusement. We don't all have to hold hands and sing 'Khum Bhaya' ALL the time do we?
Invariably what some will detest, others will find very interesting, eg. 'The Post Hole' thread ... obviously many of us enjoyed that but maybe some felt "Don't waste my time with such trivia.." (BTW, I fell into the first category, I'm just using that as an example.)




[This message has been edited by lynnl (edited 04-01-2003).]

[Ragarsed Raglan]

Shavingmaker,

I sincerely hope you take this comment in good faith, I don't want to 'pick a fight' with anyone on this board as there are a lot of people from all political and religeous persuations that are good, decent, and honest folk. I can discuss any subject, with anybody, and not finish up feeling hatred or animosity towards them if they happen to take a diametrically opposite view to mine. Those that lower themselves to 'bad mouthing' others, do not denigrate the object of their anger, but rather show the weakness of their argument.

Also, the way I see it is you have made 2 serious posts on the most contentious topic on the board at the moment (Boycott), to then ask that we don't have such topics on the board, due to the nature of the topic itself, is disingenious, and discredits any credentials you may have to make such a request. I have avidly studied that topic, and on several occasions come close to submitting a reply - but I have hesitated. I hesitated, not because of a lack of belief in my opinions but because I wanted to see how the discussion developed. The thread has revealed to me some of the real people behind the 'screen handles', and has made them more than just a facet of imagination, I now see into their heads and hearts and I still like what I see. I have discussed these things with Alistair over the phone, and by email, and although we take different lines, I still hold his friendship dear. We are capable of transending our differences, and still be friends.

We should all be adult and mature enough to discuss these things, especially such a trauma to a nation that a war engenders. I have family that were scarred by their exploits in WWII, they rarely talked about these times and their traumas until old age - when they felt they needed to know, and needed reassurance, that their actions, and the loss of their comrades, were not in vain. It is not widely known that RAF Bomber Command received no campaign medal at the close of WWII, the only branch of the three services to be shunned by the Nation; this was of deep hurt to my uncle in his later life as he was on 'scrap metal delivery' duty all over Germany, he felt the bombing of Dresden and Hamburg were mistakes by the high command but as he always pointed out "you cannot fight a politically correct war". As an aside, I personally believe America has shunned the Nam Vets for far too long, I feel the sense of hurt these Vets carry. I don't want to see it happen again with the Gulf soldiers.

P.S You can visit my shop anytime.

RR

[Rotate]

Frankly, I prefer to use C1018 when making shaft, although 12L14 can be substituted. Oups...sorry, wrong thread...or is it the wrong board?

Albert

[docsteve66]

RR: You said it so much betterthan i copuld . you too Lynn.

Personally, i love to have persons who disagree with me to visit. I dislike sitting around and all agreeing that the worlds is /has gone to the dogs. I love a free exchange of ideas and opinions and facts. It only gets hairy when the first two are confused with the third. And some times I sincerly change my mind. Hell, MOST times i come out a different man than I was before the arguments started (i use argument in the math sense not as angery conversation. Alistair aint nothing but a flaming liberal with a soft heart. But He has sure made me think! and, head hangs in shame, change a little. There is some thing about discussing a diffenrt view with a calm, sincere person who hold deep beliefs and expreses them with consideration of the listener that makes me THINK, listen and some times change. THe ones who quote rote with conviction and decibels, and refuse to hear canot change me. I spend all the time I listen, thinking of how I will respond so I am not really listenign- heard it all before (i think). So I leave unchanged.

BTW: I worked in mississippi in early, mid fifties (back when it was kind of dangerous to favor integration and I hung out in places where the fists flew quickly. I espoused, at the expense of some skin and old clothes, the ideas that were popular in the sixties. As years have passed , I see where I was wrong, the red necks were right and wrong atthe same time and the liberals were also right and wrong at same time. None of the important stuff is one demensional. I am changed, unwillingly, and remain confused.
Any person who can not argue, and do it conviencingly, either side of a question is not educated well or is simply fearful of being politicaly incorrect.

Any way my point was that there is a little button called next topic (forward or back). Learn to use it and ignore the distastful stuff. But I suspect its like Porn- even those who hate it feel the need to see- and kind of feel shocked when they see something that grabs them! THey never knew THEY were interested in that kind of "filth".
Same with politics and philoshphy.

BTW RR, you have used the term "scrap metal dleivery" several times in past posts. I always thought you were speaking of a junk yard collection. My face is red!!! Puts a whole new light on things. Right or wrong in a war counts for nothing! what counts is a man does what he is told to do, not for love of country, freedom or any of that stuff. He does it because its HIS task, his friends alongwith him andthey all want to live and still accomplish whatthey came to do. Down here in FLorida they say "its hard to remember you came to drain the swamp when the alligators are nipping your ass". sme with a man who is suppedly defending freedom, god, mother hood, all that stuff. when the chips are down he just does what has to be done as he sees it with what he has to use for tools. Eveyr man who put his ass in one of those old ,cold, sometimes fabric covered bombers, deserved a medal just for putting one foot in front of the other until he was inside the plane.
Rant off!!!!

[John Stevenson]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rotate:
Frankly, I prefer to use C1018 when making shaft, although 12L14 can be substituted. Oups...sorry, wrong thread...or is it the wrong board?

Albert</font>

Albert, should read Bored not Board.

It's starting to get just like "wreck.crafts.we don't want no steeking metalwork"

John S.

[ShavingMaker]

I have learned a lot on this BBS with regards to machining, and I thank all those of you who have submitted posts that I found useful.

But on the non-machining threads, its like DocSteve says, "its like Porn- even those who hate it feel the need to see- " and like RR says I have placed 2 serious posts on the "Boycott" thread. I admit, I have fallen into the trap twice.

My profession was as a negotiator, I know enough about people, I don't need to know any more, I no longer have the patience to sit and listen to ranting and would not feel at ease visiting the shop of some of those who have done the ranting. I am sure the reverse is true.

The BBS has been hurt. Since I don't have the will to "not click on the thread" my only alternative is signing off. Bye.

[docsteve66]

Shaving maker:
I tried to post the below by email but you have none here.So i hope you come back for one last visit.

HEre it is:SHaver: I tell you in all honesty, i passed 70 long ago. I have studied men andwomen of all cultures. I find NONE that I view with contmept. I may disagree but afterstudy i find them very acceptable. If you have discovered all you need to know about people, you have not been to the right schools not enough places. Loosen up and enjoy life. You say you don't discuss things with your family. Develope tolerance. and come on back. you have been one of the pleasures. at least learn about the next topic button,

When i was a kid my mother taught me the old poem " nobody loves me, nobody cares for me, gonna go out in the garden and eat worms, big fat juciey worms, long slick slimy worms, oh my how i love worms". I THOINK the point was that when I felt rejected, and "sulled up" I was hurting no one but my self. Hope to see you back soon
Sincerely Steve
PS My email IS available.

[Al Messer]

Personally, I like C1141 for turning shafts.

[bspooh]

I do agree with "Machining only" posts, but I do admit that its nice to see the views and opinions of fellow machinists...

I believe this BBS is solely for machining and the like, but I personally don't mind another subject once in a while...

I think the war has really affected a lot of people including all of us,..we are all on this bbs everyday, and we feel like we know each other pretty well. even if we haven't seen one another...for example, I feel like I know Thrud pretty well, and sometimes its nice to hear thruds opinions on other stuff besides machining...

who else can you vent your problems too besides your "friends and families"???

I hope I am not the only one to feel that we are in our own little way a close knit family...I know it sounds kind of weird, but think about it!!!

I remember some names like I do my own kids...(i.e.--Thrud, rotate, 3jaw, DR, farmwrench....) just to name a few...

If I have a problem I will continue to ask....

just my two cents worth

brent

[INTP]

The "off-subject" posts on this site have, BY FAR, been more civil and thoughtful than the ones I see on the other sites I visit (mostly car sites). In that sense, it's actually refreshing to me to see that there are thinking people out there. It's also a sign of the generally high level of civility that is always present here.

OTOH, what makes this site great is all the people, and it would be a shame to run people off because discussions have drifted too far from the primary focus. I have to think that there's an AND solution, not just an OR solution. Perhaps a separate forum for off-topic subjects. I'll leave it to my host to decide, and I'll follow their lead.

[brunneng]

Neil-

How about an "Off-topic" folder for the non-metal stuff that machinists would talk about if we were all sitting around a shop jawin'.

That would seem to please everyone.

-Kevin