Suggest a standard text on engine machining

[abn]

I'm looking for a text on internal combustion engine inspection and machining. I checked the library and found slim pickens. Most everything is a "How to rebuild..." Can anyone recommend a standard text that is to engines as the Connelly text is to machine tool rebuilding.

I guess I'll check the SAE site now...

[Ragarsed Raglan]

abn,

Depends how deep you want to go; the following are excellent treatises on Internal Combustion theory and practice.

"Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals"
John B Heywood
McGraw-Hill

"Introduction to Internal Combustion Engines"
Richard Stone
Palgrave

"The Two Stroke Cycle Engine, its Development, Operation, and Design"
John B Heywood
Taylor & Francis

"Engines: an Introduction"
John Lumley
Cambridge University Press

All these get into engine fundamentals, most will need a degree in mathematics to be able to appreciate the finer detail, but are still very readable despite this. The later is probably the one I would recommend as a good all round educating read.

There are also some 'engine tuning' books on the market, but these tend to be contentious in some of their statements. There are some older books however, although now dated, are excellent insights into engine basics. One you might want to look out for is:-

"Tuning for speed"
Phil Irving
Turton & Armstrong, NSW, Australia.

This cover mostly motorcycle air cooled engines from side valves to OHC, but not 4 valvers, it was written in the 50's but is still good, although sadly, quite rare! A later series of books was written by Bell (and unfortunately I cannot remember his initials or first name ~ but think it may have been Graham Bell), and are entitled "Four Stroke Engine Tuning", and it's sister book "Two Stroke Engine Tuning"; these are again good general insight books which are readable to the layman with an interest in engine operations, and improving performance. It has the best explanation of 'desaxe' I've ever read!!

RR
GRRRRRRRaaaaaH ~ sorry double signature (edited)

[This message has been edited by Ragarsed Raglan (edited 03-21-2003).]

[docsteve66]

RR: what is 'desaxe' ? in words for a 4 year old please (no I am not fo' no mo')
Steve twp

[3jaw]

abn,

I have 4 different books that I bought in my automotive machinist days. These were all bought through the Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association www.aera.org. They are:

"Engine Repair: Head Assembly and Valve Gear"
Bob Barkhouse
Bennet & McKnight (A division of Glenco)
ISBN 0-02-672380-8
This is a really good text on cylinder head rebuilding. It's a little dated in that most of the information pertains to domestic engines.

"Automotive Engine Rebuilding"
James G. Hughes
John Wiley & Sons Inc.
ISBN 0-471-03461-4
Good general all-around book covering all aspects of engine machining and rebuilding.

"Engine Service" 2nd Ed.
Gary Lewis
Prentice-Hall
ISBN 0-13-277849-1
Similar to the previous book only more condensed.

"Auto Engines"
James E. Duffy
Goodheart-Willcox
ISBN 0-87006-677-3
Mostly about repair and less about machining.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

Greg

[Dave Opincarne]

Do any of these get into more of the theory of engines? Things like scavenging or stroke leangth vs. HP for example.

[abn]

The Heywood book, Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals...is a STANDARD text on the theory of engines. It is probably available from your local library and is the most in depth I've ever read. The Bell books mentioned are much more readable and geared towards an average motor enthusiast. My library had the A Graham Bell books as well. Try before you buy!

[abn]

RR,
I've read the Heywood, and Bell books...I'll take a look for the others.

[abn]

3jaw,

I found the John Hughes text, it's on the way...Thanks for introducing the Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association that looks promising. I've got a book case full of tuning theory, and repair texts, but nothing that really addresses machining and inspection in depth. Hopefully the Hughes text will be that missing link.

[docsteve66]

does "Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association" still publish a trade magazine? I used to recieve "precsion" (machining or rebuilding) with many good shop and engine ideas- and they refuted many a hoary truth held by readers of hobby car magizines (Hot rod etc- not denigrating hot rod just pointing out that they (like AERA and my self often make honest mistakes).

If it is still published does any one recieve it?
Steve

[chief]

Doc,
AERA still publishes AUTOMOTIVE ENGINE REBUILDER thru Babcock publications,$64.00 a year unless you can get the boss to pay or you qualify for free subscription.
Sunnen's cylinderhead and block book is probably the best probably the best.
Other's are J.F. Reynolds AUTOMOTIVE MACHINCE SHOP (out of print, try an online used book store, cost me $15) and the standard engine blueprining book advertisied in every Hot Rod magazine.
The Sunnen book tells you everything including machine set-up.
As I'm sure Doc can attest to, no book is going to give you the secret hand shake and all the tricks,(trade secrets) Automotive Machine work is more an art than science and Auto machinist's are a breed apart, I know some that can do anything you want to a head or cylinder but are utterly clueless as to how make a bolt.

[docsteve66]

Chief- from some of his posts i would say RR has forgotten more about engines than I ever knew!. But regardless of who knows more, most good ideas about engines (and lots of other things) come when a group (like this one) finds a man who the guts to state some half baked idea, have it discussed, tried and it works or at least looks as though it would work. Then everyone forgets who thought of it and some one esle gets credit and things progress.
The basic is get (with gasoline engines anyway), air, fuel,compression, spark to togehter at right time and engine will run. More is better. All the rest (books and engineering are concerned mainly with the more part. The "more" and the problem of holding it all together long enough to finish what you started. Old books are good- if they are still respected and refered to by men who use the info (that mostly means no text books). Most magazines (hot rod) etc are selling dreams not information. The magazine i leiked best was "Precision machine shop, productivity information for successful engine rebuilders"- More devotedto how to hold engines together than to increasing power. But it had tidbits of info on increasing power and why. I usedto get it free- i sent some info that they used, but i think its out of business. I thought they were affiliated with AERA but now i think not.

RR has two books on his list (top two) that i recogonize. The first was hard reading if memory serves. I read (thats past tense "read") those books and (decyphered the formulas) and basicly I read the formula to see what varies directly and what goes by square and cubes or the inverse. then back to the text. No effort to meorize the formula- once you uinderstand how things inter-act, and why you can knid of make up the formula in your head and use it. for example if power is proportional to displacement and directly as air intake, you have no control over the cubic inches, you worrry about getting more air in and you know what effect to expect so formula is satisfied even if unknown. Engines is witch craft!!!! (till you figure out what do) . The old basics are what are needed and basics change slowly. and beware of any book that says "introduction" or "basics". THey will be either usless or very hard reading. If the text is lucid, has lots of formulas, well indexed, it is probably one of the very hard ones and worth the time to master it. Math I learned as I needed it- that can be done with application, I scored in 80 percentile on GRE in 1967 and mostly self taught. When you really want it or need it, its easy.

Also, i hate to borrow a book (libary or other wise) When i read, i write in margins, I argue that the author is a fool and why. THen usualy, years later i go back and correct my foolish writings. My system, be it history, engineering, what ever keeps me honest. I admit it wrote that stuff, but i now know more so the authuor was right but he should have told it more clearly (I am never 100 percent wrong (except about 50 per cent of the time).

What I am saying is, a reccomended list is a list biased by the person who learned who did the reccomending. If you can follow the list may be good (probably is) but unless you have seen the same need as the first person , most of the info will not be applicalbe. Books are very personal (and precious).

When a person asks for a "good book" on machining or engines or woodworking, that person needs to think some more. Most books will get the fundementals accross, its when you need a book or paper on a specific question that some one else can help. BY that time you are buying a few hundred pages to get the info on five or ten pages in your grubby little hands. Just a few pages with special insight. Then you have mastered the book part of the education. Abn's question concnerning "inspection and machining" makes me think he is beyond the basics and neds a rather specialized reference book. H is gonna buy many pages to get a few. Congratulaions ABN.
Chips come next or before education. Peace
Steve

[chief]

DOC,
I concur with what your saying. I recommended those book because they address the actual machining of how and where to set the cutter-bar etc. You are right about the half-baked ideas. I grew up down the road from Jimmy Spencer (nascar guy) and knew him and his brothers and bought parts at his old man's junkyard. The old man (ED) was a hard core old school dirt track racer. They always had the fastest cars on the street (owning a used car dealer ship and a junkyard helps.). It was all fun and games till day one this young guy from across the river cleans their clock, they can't touch this guy. The guy was a high school drop out,worked to support his parents and had a plywood shack for a garage but he wasn't afraid to try things and as you said that's why he was able to beat the big boys.
Everything he owned was handmade jury rigged stuff, a homemade welder run of a cessna engine, powered his flat with a flat belt driven off a farmall. They never did beat old Jake but unfortunately Jake was killed by a drunk driver on 13 Jun 1989.
I saw him for the last time a week before when I was home on leave. He would have liked this board and just told people to go out and try it till you figure it out.

[Ragarsed Raglan]

Docsteve66,

Apologies for being so long getting back to you on your query about 'desaxe'.

This is defined as the offset of the cylinder bore axis from the true intersection point of the axis of the crankshaft. The reason this is used is to counter the loading effect on one side of the piston during the combustion stroke, it also has the advantage of minimally changing the stroke/angle relationship. To understand this one would expect a four stroke engine to be symetrical in the angular displacement of each stroke, i.e. intake = 180*, compression = 180*, power = 180*, and exhaust = 180*. The use of 'desaxe' changes this by reducing the angular displacement of the 'wasted' strokes (and by wasted I mean the ones that although necessary, are not conducive to power production). This therefore gives us an engine which may have an intake angular displacement of 182*, compression of 178*, power of 182*, and exhaust of 178*. Bit like a shaper where the return stroke is a wasted stroke and is faster than the forward cutting stroke!! Now don't ask me about a Wankel engine and how it manages to use 3 sides of a piston and also have incredible assymetric timing events (itro intake = 270*, compression = 90*, power = 270*, and exhaust = 90*)

I believe the understanding of engine machining is achieved through the reading of basic engine fundamentals, the necessity of having the cylinder axes square to the crank axis, the rods running true, and all the other methods of reducing parasitic losses (i.e. friction!) are all achievable through considered machining. Just small ideas such as relieving the top threads in a deck face to stop 'pulled' threads interfering with gasket seating, the need to have deckfaces with a slight roughness (such as NOT having a mirror like ground finish) to help 'key' the gasket and stop fretting under thermal change. Valve seats cut to 45 1/2 degrees, to ensure they seal on the outer lip and will seal better as they bed in. This will not produce an engine with vastly increased power - but it will produce an engine that is fuel efficient and working at its optimum. The understanding of the relationship of camshaft timing and engine speed, inlet manifold geometry, and exhaust layout will also aid the reader in his pursuit of an engine that will be reliable, powerful and efficient. Reading a good book should excite the reader to the extent that they will have a light switched on in a remote brain compartment, that will allow the readers own ideas to develop and flow!!

BTW ~ It is no surprise that with the modern engines of today we are seeing the introduction of designs that were developed in race engines of 20 and 30 years ago; 4 valves per cylinder with direct overhead camshafts, slipper pistons, and reduced bearing sizes to improve efficiencies and power outputs.

Sorry for the waffle, hope I got there with the explanation Steve!!

RR

[docsteve66]

RR: I got it!!!! Friend of mine goes to lengths to insure his boring jobs keep the old bores centers- and in case ofre-re- bore to find where the crank axis was and that cylinder is "square". And he doesnt worry as much about dimeter of bore (near cneter of specs) as it being straight and same dimeter from top to bottom. Little friction here and there makes a difference, Sure would love to buy you a cup of coffee and listen a while. Thanks. I will do some more digging now!!!
I liked your "Reading a good book should excite the reader to the extent that they will have a light switched on in a remote brain compartment, that will allow the readers own ideas to develop and flow!!" statement. I get to reading some basic reference book, a light comes on, I continue reading- but mind is far far away thinking of whatthe implications of that light are. A good reference article -to me- is one that i must read several times cause the lights come on and the eyes read (naybe the brain absorbs a little) but i see things in my imagination and maybe dreams when i sleep. learning is a adventure with out the adrenaline. THanks again
Steve

[kgarver]

One automotive book that will help anyone with a calculator is "Automobile Math" from HP books. About $16.95 at your local Waldon or Barnes & Noble bookstore. It is a rather complete but simple book with most all of the math used to get things like compression ratios, cubic inch displacement [CID] (or CC disp.), piston speed, torque, horsepower, rear axle ratios, tire diameter with known tire aspect ratios, top speed, speedometer error, best ET and fastest 1/4 mile speed. It even has a section on weight transfer for drag racers and road racers. You only need a calculator with cubic roots to work all of the formulas.

Now: Question Time.

How do you determine the Mean Effective Pressure (MEP) for a turbocharged engine if you know the compressor's operating pressure in PSI, the temperature of the incoming charge in degrees (F.*), the engine's CR, bore, stroke and RPM? Do I need any other information/data? I don't have any pressure transducers so I need a good mathmatical formula. Also to find the torque for a normally asperated engine its the (CID X Mean Effective Pressure) (MEP) [I think] divided by 150.8. That answer is usually always way too low for a turbocharged engine. How do you figure the torque for a turbocharged motor?

What is the relationship between the HP RPM and the torque RPM? Torque is equal to (MEP X 792,000) divided by (RPM X CID). Now do you use the torque RPM in this formula OR the HP RPM? The maxium torque RPM usually seems to be about 75% to 80% of the maxium HP RPM. Is this true for turbocharged engines too? If I know the motors torque in Newton/meters what are the calcualtions used to find that same force in Foot/pounds? For instance, what is 33 N/M in Ft/lbs.?

What type of titanium is used for connecting rods? I know that they are VERY suseptable to crack propigation from surface "notching". Is there any special machining operations or are they all just VERY CAREFULLY handled during machining? Are they polished and shot peened like steel rods? How are they inspected after final machining to determine IF they are acceptable? Are they heat treated after final machining? If so, how and who does that kind of thing other than the F1 racing teams?
When two titanium con rods share one crank pin (V-8's for instance) they tend to "pick up" or "gall" on each other. I assume that some kind of surface treatment is used to stop that. Does anyone know exactly what? How long do titanium connecting rods last? How do you figure their useable life? I'm seriously considering making a set of titanium connecting rods but no one seems to know or share this information with me.
Regards, Ken