home based machine shop business ( Long )

[MadPatter]

Hey guys, I am from sunny California, I am new to the forum and I have a few questions for a home based machine shop. I am fairly new to machining, I am a two year apprentice. Well the shop I used to work in closed a few years back. The owner ended up selling the equipment to me and comes by once and awhile to teach me. I now have an 8x36 knee mill and a 13x40 lathe to get me started. I do deal with some customers from the old shop that I used to work at. I thought to myself, if they really want me to continue to do work for them, why not get a business license to help start a foundation for my home based machine shop. So I went down to the city hall to find out if I am able to obtain a business license to start a small machine hobby shop. I was told that I will not be able to obtain a business license for a home based small machine hobby shop because of the “loud noise, and excessive vibration” I would produce. During the time I have used the machines at home, I have not ever received one complaint nor caused excessive noise or vibrations that would cause a nuisance to my friendly neighbors. Now for my questions. Is there a way to “re-word” this so I do not make them think I have machines? How would one obtain a business license if they have encountered a problem like mine? Any one running a successful home based machine shop from home that is located in California? I would love to know how you are doing it. Can I just make stuff and sell it on ebay without getting in trouble? I've been doing work under the table and its gotten me pretty far. Obviously I do not know much in this area. I am basically worried that if I continue to do work, that I may be liable for a law suit ( lord forbid ). I am open to any comments, suggestions or both. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for the help in advance.
Patrick W.

[Keith Krome]

Maybe say that you are a design consultant? I would say engineering consultant, but that might get you in hot water with the professional engineering (PE) crowd.

[lynnl]

Ain't governments great!!

Welcome to the group Patrick. You have my sympathy.

Do folks around that neck'o the woods not use lawnmowers and weedeaters and such? Kitchen blenders? Vacuum cleaners?

How about calling it "metallurgical crafts"?

(Don't mean to be picky, but just a constructive suggestion - a longer thread is more easily read if broken up into paragraphs with some blank lines thrown in.)

[Weston Bye]

Before moving, I checked out the ordnances to see what was allowed.
As I write articles for HSM and Digital Machinist, I was pleased to find that writer was on the list of approved home-based businesses. the machines were just tools that help me complete the articles.

Also in the ordnances, I found that specifically, no business here could be conducted from the garage. I built my house so that the shop adjoined the garage but was part of the house. There are a few machines in the garage, but none that wouldn't be common in a hobby woodworker's or hotrod builders garage.

I keep a low profile and have sense enough to be quieter than all the other neighbors, including the motorcycle riders living down the street - not that I mind them, but they can irritate some other neighbors occasionally.

Weston Bye

[mklotz]

It's the Peoples' Republik of Kalifornia. Doing anything useful is forbidden by law because it makes the yuppies feel inadequate.

Next time you apply for a business license, list your shop as something like an 'artistic atelier' (you'll have to spell it for the two neuron liberals in the government) and tell them that your products are 'metallic interpretations of the craftsman school mystique'. Bend a couple of wires into fanciful shapes, solder them together and take them along to show as your latest 'creative effort'. Tell them that, when done, you intend to donate it to the local sculpture garden. Take along the soldering iron and offer to show them how quiet it is.

California government drones just love anything that can be classified as art which, in Kalifornia, means just about anything. Don't bother to mention that your muse is pulling you toward a new expressive idiom that involves threads, shoulders and precision bored holes.

[Evan]

It depends a lot on which jurisdiction you are in.

[IOWOLF]

Here A H.B.B is one that only you are an employee, Like Avon or Amway, Try something like watch/clock repair.

[Tin Falcon]

I have heard the story before. Can you get by calling your occupation model maker or the like? Or like marv said you can always go with metalic art.
Tin Falcon

[gellfex]

I just call myself a consultant. I had 3 years taxes audited in the 90's and there was no problem with that.

While I am a registered business and have a Employer Tax ID #, I don't use tax resale number, figuring I save more than the sales taxes I pay by flying under that radar, and materials are usually such a small part of a job's cost.

I don't do a "home office" deduction, which is an audit magnet.

I try not to piss off my neighbors.

On the other hand, The first guy to show us property in this midsized, de-industrializing, notoriously corrupt east coast city told us "you could manufacture plutonium here if you know the right people". In 10 years I've seen little to prove him wrong, so YMMV depending on your location.

[Weston Bye]

Not only is it what you do, but how that doing is supported; delivery trucks coming and going, although with the advent of internet shopping UPS and such are pretty regular everywhere. What draws attention is regular visits from the flatbed truck from the steel distributor. Same goes if you need to own your own large truck; it better look presentable and you better have a place to park it. (Never mind that your shiftless neighbor has a junker up on blocks in the front yard)

[Mark Hockett]

The first thing I did when living in California and wanting to start a home base machining business was to move to Washington. Where I live now they seem to like business as long as it’s not a big corporate chain. I had no problem getting a business license to run a machine shop out of my home; I even live in a residential neighborhood. There was also another benefit to moving; because of the way over inflated home prices in California I was able to pay cash for my house in WA.

[Steeltoe]

If you want every city,county and state official at your door,telling you that you can't do this at home,get a license.I had a business for 22 years.If I were to do it again,I would open in my garage and NEVER tell the city.The only thing that will get you in trouble is the traffic.If you can pick-up and deliver your work and material,nobody will be the wiser.There's no law against making noise during normal hours.You already have seen the bullsh*t that spews out of there mouths and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I just built a machine shop for a friend of mine,who already runs an automotive parts warehouse.He went to the city to see if he had to change his license and the city wanted a traffic and enviromental impact study!!This is a shop that has it own delivery trucks.Like the same trucks that go in and out all day long,by having a shop,are somehow going to impact traffic .So he said screw the city and put one in anyway.The fire department has come by for there inspection and gave him there blessings.The only advantage to be on the up & up,is to incorperate so someone can't sue your personal property from you,but there are ways around that to.

[wierdscience]

Like Steeltoe said,just do it and don't tell anybody.Yu can still go ahead and form an LLC company which should limit your liability to the assets of the company(which you keep to just file cabinets and a desk).If you don't have a-

Storefront
Customers coming and going at all hours
Sale tax exemption
Employees
Or a title then your not really in business are you?

Or,do what Marv said and call yourself and artist.Better yet call yourself a "Transgender expressionist"that'll get you approved

[PackardV8]

Greetings, All,

To get an idea if you are a working machinist and a businessman at the same time, start small. Don't represent yourself as a corporation, just "do favors for friends." Keep some accurate records of every minute you spend with the customer, on the phone, picking up and delivering, how much you spend buying stock and parts, gas and electricity. After a year or less, you'll know if you want to do it full time.

FWIW, I have known several very happy, fulfilled and mildly prosperous home shop machinsts. As long as there is no heavy traffic, no mess, usually no problems. The best type is gunsmithing, model making, prototyping, anything small and low volume/high value. Most make it a point to pick up and deliver themselves, meeting customers at their place of business. This keeps a low profile, keeps the neighbors clueless and keeps the city off your case.

thnx, jv

[MadPatter]

Wow. Look at all the responses. Thanks guys!.

lynnl- "(Don't mean to be picky, but just a constructive suggestion - a longer thread is more easily read if broken up into paragraphs with some blank lines thrown in.)"

I was never a good writer. lol. But now I know.

mklotz- "Bend a couple of wires into fanciful shapes, solder them together and take them along to show as your latest 'creative effort'. Tell them that, when done, you intend to donate it to the local sculpture garden. Take along the soldering iron and offer to show them how quiet it is."

HAHAHAHHA. If I only had the guts to.

wierdscience- "Or,do what Marv said and call yourself and artist.Better yet call yourself a "Transgender expressionist"that'll get you approved"

If there are people getting business licenses for "transgender expressionist" I will be pissed.

Here is the full version of the regulation they slapped me with.
"The use does not create under 1) noise, 2) vibration, 3) dust, 4) odors, 5) smoke, 6) television or radio interference, 7) heat, 8) radiation or any other nuisance. The use does not involve the storage of hazardous, flammable or combustible liquids or materials, other than those customarily found in a dwelling (and of no greater intensity or duration than that customarily associated with a residence)."

Seems like no one would have a home based business unless you just had some type of desk job and some glue.

So far this is what every one has suggested.
Keith Krome- Design Consultant
Wes1- Metallurgical crafts
Mklotz- Artistic atelier ''Metallic interpretations of the craftsman school''
Tin Falcon- Model Maker
Gellflex-Consultant
Mark Hocket- Move to a state that will allow a home based machine shop.
Steeltoe- NEVER tell the city.


To be quite honest. I am pretty happy with just doing things "under the table". I may not have a store front, sales tax exemption (although that would be nice), employees, or constant customers coming and going. But the skills that I have learned along with the tools have helped me dodge a legit job. I may just stick with Steeltoe's suggestion and keep my mouth shut. Keep running with the people I do work for and sell some "off road use only" items on ebay or something. My main concern is the obvious “what if’s”. If I continue to do work for some of customers from the old shop that I used to work at. I am worried that if something were to go wrong, the customer may flip and take legal action. I may just get screwed.

How would one go about taking precautions to legal action? I would rather be prepared for the situation instead of surprised. Keep the suggestions and comments coming. Thanks again for the help.
Patrick