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  • Send it back?

    I lost the Chicom lottery again

    I bought a tilting angle table from Enco, and it was covered in cosmoline everywhere except the corner, which is deeply rusted from the saltwater air on the ship coming from China:

    This is the 7x10 table with the worm drive, so it weighs around 50 lbs. Is it worth sending back, or should I just scrape-out the rust and call it even?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

  • #2
    I would just clean it off and use it. It won't hurt anything. However, if you are a fanatic about the condition of your tools and machines then send it back no mater how much it costs because you will never be happy.
    It's only ink and paper


    • #3

      I agree with Carl - sand it off and forget about a little rust in that location. I would start by contacting ENCO and see what they offer. The little rust will not hurt anything if the area is sanded/stoned down to the machined surface.


      • #4
        I would email Enco and attachment of the photos you have shown here. A month or so ago I bought a little pocket magnifier from them for $7. I did not think it was any better than one I could have got at a Dollar store. I emailed them, telling I didn't think it was worth the price. They emailed me back and said they would refund my money ( which they did) and to just toss the magnifier or what ever I wanted to do with it. Who knows you might end up with a free table or New one.
        Good luck

        I would rather have tools that I never use, than not have a tool I need.
        Oregon Coast


        • #5
          I agree with lugnut, you may end up with a free table (and keep the old), a refund or a replacement table with return shipping picked up by them.

          The grind looks decent in other areas. I brush off light rust with a stainless steel brush, single direction strokes and some Starrett M1 or light oil. The pit marks will always be there but I'd give it a light stoning to be sure there are no raised areas. Other than cosmetics, how often are ya going to depend on the bearing area of that corner anyway

          Looking at the image again, you may be surprised at how much of it is outward growth that comes off easily, leaving a lot less damage than you think ... maybe



          • #6
            Thanks for all the responses!

            Originally posted by nheng
            The grind looks decent in other areas.

            Other than cosmetics, how often are ya going to depend on the bearing area of that corner anyway
            It's hard to tell from those pictures, but the swirly patterns are actually etched into the surface of the table. In other words, it's not surface rust. The amazing thing is that you can see that the rust pattern is triangular shaped -- the guy that was coating the tool in cosmoline must have left a flap of the shrink wrap flap over the top of the table, missing the corner. I'm astonished that it would rust that much in overseas shipment!

            Next time I'm scrubbing off all that cosmoline you get on Chicom tools, I'm going to be greatful!

            As you say, the surface of the table is nicely ground, and the fit into the curved ways is actually pretty nice. What's really disappointing is the worm-drive is really, totally, completely crappy. It's got backlash of at least a half turn of the crank. A lot of that is really sloppy fit between the worm and the worm wheel (the base of the table), but a lot of it is from a very primitive set of pillow blocks that hold the worm. The pillow blocks I can replace, but from playing with it, most of the backlash seems to be in the loose fit with the worm -- is there any cute way to fix that other than cutting a new, non-standard worm to fit the worm wheel cut into the base?
            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."


            • #7
              Tilting talbe not Chinese

              I got a 7x10 tilting table from Enco too, a year or so ago. It came from India, and not one t-slot was the same as another. Had it fixed at work to match US made t-slot nuts.


              • #8
                I went and looked at mine and I guess you could bore the worm bearing area out and bush it with brass off set to close the gear lash some.
                It's only ink and paper


                • #9
                  Hand Hone it

                  Hand hone with stone then rub oil into it good as can be.


                  • #10
                    Somewhat on topic, I've been thinking about getting one of those myself. Seems like a far too significant a percentage of the items I mill need angles somewhere on their surface. I was looking for a HD tilting mill vise when I stumbled onto a 3 axis Wilton cheaper than the 2 axis vises I had seen. "Oh, that will be even better!", says I. I'm pretty dense like that sometimes. As I'm sure you guys can imagine, setup on that vise is a mofo! And it's heavy! Between the two, I pretty much always find another way rather than drag it out.

                    Most of the time you only need one axis, so it seems that would be great to avoid re-tram. Something like that 7x10 should be good for most everything I would need. You guys that have them, what do you think? Sufficiently rigid and easy enough to setup? Or is this another item that usually gathers dust?

                    As far as the original topic, I would call Enco. If the damage doesn't bother you that much and they will "make a deal", then keep it. Maybe 25% refund, or even 50%, as if it were a used item such that you would expect stuff like that, and it's figured into the price. Otherwise, I would definitely return it on their shipping. You bought and paid for a "new" item, not a damaged item. You can get minor damaged "new" items like that at a bents-n-dents salvage operation for less money (if you could find that particular item of course) and Enco should expect you to pay full price for it. I think it would be unethical for anyone to expect or ask to be given it for free. I think 50% off is the most that bit of rust should be worth (more like 25%, but that's a personal call depending on if your a fanatic about stuff), and that would be "fair" to both parties.
                    Master Floor Sweeper


                    • #11
                      I'm astonished that it would rust that much in overseas shipment!
                      I doubt it did. It's only about 18 days by container ship from China to here plus the item is packaged, palletized, and in a container. Containers aren't airtight but they float, for a while. The pattern looks more like it was in contact with something that ate it, maybe stacked on another part that had some pickle solution on it and left some on that corner. That would promote corrosion the entire time since it happened.
                      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here


                      • #12
                        Well it isn't right, and you didn't pay extra for the rust :-). But really, if it isn't honestly going to hurt, why bother. Enco sold it and they have a gaurentee but I bet it was in a sealed cardboard carton with the table in "mashed to bits" styrofoam? If they had seen it I doubt they would have shipped it.

                        Enco has been so outstanding in taking care of stuff as to be unbelieveable.

                        1) One end of carboard shipping tube blown out with half the W-1 missing. UPS shot put neanderthals did it. ENCO said no problem and shipped replacements.

                        2) Got a hand tapper with three 3/8" inserts so it was missing 2 others in the set. ENCO said no problem and shipped out a complete set of replacements ($29 in the catalog).

                        3) Bought 2 dial bore gages. A .24" - .4" and a .4" to .75". Because of my own idiocy I thought there were parts missing with the smaller of the two and called them up. They shipped a new one out with a return lable for the one I had.

                        I found out it was totally my fault and called them up and offered to pay the shipping both ways. ENCO said no, that they would rather I be happy with it and it was worth it to them to have a satisfied customer.

                        Son of the silver stream ..... Bullet caster.


                        • #13
                          In my case I would just use it. It would match everything else in my shop. But if you are working in a sterile environment then maybe for piece of minds sake you should exchange it for a clean one.

                          I'm toying with getting one of those myself. It would pay for itself in the cost of chamfer bits before long. I also don't like taking the mill out of tram for simple stuff. Although I suppose tramming in the head doesnt take anymore time than removing the vice and putting on the angle head.
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                          Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

                          It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.


                          • #14
                            Show us the pix after wire wheeling. Hard to tell from those which honestly don't look that bad as several have said. It isn't in an especially sensitive place anyway. You don't want to clamp way out on the edge or the table will likely flex.

                            I just got done going over some surface rust on a piece I bought from someone. They had cleaned all the cosmolene off with something like brake cleaner (no trace of anything resembling oil) and then just left it sit. It looked bad, and I was annoyed, but it cleaned up completely.

                            Be sure to apply something protective ASAP. Rust, as you know, grows on itself. I like to use Break Free, which many in the firearms crowd use. WD40, as you probably also know, is not a great rust preventer. Any new tool that walks into my shop gets a rub down from my spray bottle of break free. Any machine tool that I give a thorough cleaning to gets a follow up.

                            I don't see much rust in my shop, though I live right on the coast.



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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Your Old Dog
                              I'm toying with getting one of those myself.
                              My recommendation for anyone considering one of these tilting angle tables: get the cheaper one, without the worm drive. It's the exact same table, and like I said earlier the table and T-Slots on the table I got is actually pretty good (minus the rust).

                              The worm drive mechanism is poorly made, and restricts the tilt to +45°, -15°. The non worm drive version can tilt up to 45° in both directions.
                              Last edited by lazlo; 05-06-2007, 10:14 AM.
                              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."