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OT: Wiring a Workshop Need Advice

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ckelloug
    Rusty,

    I think code says that there can only be 360 degrees of elbows between pull points.
    Yup.
    As for the reason they want the wire pulled rather than assembled in the conduit , I suspect that it has to do with having the joints rotated with wire inside is more likely to score all of the way through the insulation than a single longitudinal scratch from pulling: just a guess.
    The primary reason is to ensure that the wire can be pulled through the conduit. One day, somebody may need to pull new wire through that conduit, and if the only way that can be done is by digging up and disassembling the whole shebang, well, that's not too good.
    Todd

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    • #17
      Originally posted by J Tiers
      That's another thing.....

      Those are not permitted in the same raceway with 120/240 power wires......
      Yup,but there is a saying around here-

      "you can get them to follow the code some of the time,but not all of the time"
      I just need one more tool,just one!

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      • #18
        Yes, following the code? When I was coming up, people burned down buildings till they learned what "not to do". A code book was way beyond most the alcoholics who wired buildings.

        The union Apprenticeship program? Lots of the young guys don't appreciate the school. Most by the third year think they know it all. When they are gave the responsibility of "running" a small job, then they start really learning.

        I ran several extra conduits in the ditch.. since I pulled computer network cable and a phone line into one.

        I ran a one inch, Three #6's on a 50 amp breaker. I had a paint booth then and not a machine shop and paint booth. I have not upgraded yet. JUST that big compressor required a 50 amp service.

        Pulling THHN or similar single conductor wire is mucho easier than trying to pull duplex or triplex or entrance cable.. MOST the mistakes I see novices attempt is to use the entrance cable in conduit. YOU actually need a 4 wire system if same codes as around here. Neutral, ground, two single phase hots..

        I would be tickled with a 100 amp service to the shop. for another few years anyways. 200 amps, well the cost of the wire would make me rethink a meterbase out there. (actual local code) no external buildings shall be supplied by residential service. Only logic, since a fireman or other entering the building not familiar with the property lines would not know where to disconnect power. I really don't want a meter reader messing around my building thou. I caught one sneaking around the back yard looking at the 54 ford back there. I got posted-no tresspassing signs up, Evidently he just wanted to look and he had a reason he thought.

        In the early 80s there was some wires sticking out of the sidewalk in front of ClarkLift of Dalton, I hunted for three days trying to find where they tied in to take them loose, Finally I got the bright idea to pump silicone in around the naked wires which had lost all thier insulation and put a junction box and concrete them over.. You could pull the wires into the conduit and weld, the ground sounded like bees, vibrating.. I see a hump in the sidewalk even today as I drive past. NO clue where them wires were fed from.

        Even if you provide the safest wiring service by local code? Please follow up with all the internal wiring in your shop. I am as bad as anyone else to temporary things in. My paint shop side still has a light stringer.
        Excuse me, I farted.

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        • #19
          David,

          Thanks for the admonishment and anecdotes. This is actually the second time I've rewired the service here. The first time was during my house rewiring which passed electrical inspection as one of the nicest homeowner wiring jobs the inspector had ever seen. The following is more detail than probably interests anyone but. . .

          As to your comment about supplying two buildings from one service being forbidden, that is generally true by NEC but my anonymous chat with the inspection department indicates that they allow it and I believe that allowance traces back to exception 3 of NEC 230.40 which states "A single-family dwelling unit and a separate structure shall be permitted to have one set of service entrance conductors run to each from a single service drop or lateral". The inspection department here has permitted my building as a detached garage so they consider it part of the house more or less.

          There is currently a 200A service running to the house on messenger wire from the pole that is kinda ugly and technically not code compliant although it is grandfathered by our local authorities since it dates back to 1943. My plan involves moving the service to the new garage shop about 30 feet away as the crow flies and then running 200A on 2/0 THHN Copper back to the house from the new meterbase. Since the long 200A circuit has to be pulled regardless, there's no reason not to put a 400A service on the new garage since it's only a few feet of wiring to make the garage 200A instead of 100. I'm planning to put a up a 400 A meterbase which has dual 200A overcurrent/service disconnects. Since the house is already set up for 200A, the 200A to the shop is just a matter of using an appropriate meter base.

          I'm planning on pulling 3 2/0 and an insulated #6 for the ground from the new service equipment back to the house and doing the same to the shop. The meter base I will use is sctually a light commerical unit designed for 600A because it is what my local supply house carries and it has the bonus of having 1/0 grounding lugs which should keep the place nice and well grounded for the welder. The local electrical supply stocks 500 kcm copper so that's what I'll run from the service head to the meter socket.

          Once I get into the shop, I'm going to wire everything with type AC on the surface of the concrete board walls because the last thing you want in a shop is to have wires buried where you can't get to them. (Also due to reasons I can't explain, several rolls of the stuff have accumulated in my back room and it's a way to use them up.)

          I'm asking my questions here instead of another venue because it is fun to see what shop wiring stories everybody else has. It's also nice to get my reasonably carefully planned plan double checked. I have no intention of making an asshat of myself and goofing this up. You're talking to the man who installed arcfault interrupters in his bedrooms so far before their time that I had to explain what they were to the guys at the supply house. . .

          Thanks again for all the comments. I should be putting up a tool bloat er... I mean gloat thread with pics as soon as this nonsense is finished, the inspection passed, and I don't have lathe parts in the middle of my living room.

          Seeing no "What the gravy were you thinking posts", I guess I'll draw up the plans and go pull the electrical permit on Monday.

          --Cameron

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          • #20
            "and I don't have lathe parts in the middle of my living room"

            But, what will the neighbors think?

            Seriously, I think the one thing "we" have in common is a shop, be it small or large. I never think it "hurts" to ask about solutions to the more "common problems" like: storage, power, and shop layout. Sometimes it just keeps the echo chamber clear of "self intiatiated errors".

            Deep in the process of "decluttering" and improving Studio G, where does all the money go...
            Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."

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