Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Patent your ideas? the trials and tribulations

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Patent your ideas? the trials and tribulations

    Deleted/erased-out
    Last edited by oldtiffie; 08-20-2007, 06:36 AM.

  • #2
    I got about half way through it and as usual there are about 1,000 different opinions if 1,000 people are asked, still lots of good stuff but it just goes to show you how vague the entire process can be --- like anything the more you know about it the less overwhelming it is, thats why im so overwhelmed by it all though

    If the time ever comes I dont know if I will take this one on or just try to buddy of with someone who will want to work on a commission basis, I think thats the way it should be, maybe the first thing patent lawyers should have to do is sign a disclaimer, Then like many other claim settlement lawyers they should deside if its worth it for them to "take the case" --- if its a go then you know that you would get the best possible effort with both your and thier interests being the same goal, perhaps it should be a financial partnership with everything right from the start, I know you would get raped in the process but at least youd get a little kiss now and then...

    Anyways, thanks for the site Tiff.

    Comment


    • #3
      Now that were on the subject, What good is a disclaimer? I mean --- If somebody had a really bombproof great Idea whats to stop anybody else involved from calling a friend on the other side of the country and spilling all the beans in detail? then they split the difference when all the smoke settles, Its such a sketchy thing to get into, It really is the one area that I dread even thinking about, For the most part I will continue to create just for the sake of creating, its in me, it has to come out, that will always overide any other desire, but it would be nice to have a more solid avenue to pursue after the fact --- if not just for more security and freedom to keep on doing what im doing...

      I also have to admit that in some cases I dont want decades of R&D being just tossed out a window, I want credit for it, it doesnt even always have to equate to the dollar either, I put in a ton of trench time to be where im at and be doing what im doing, Im not about to just let somebody jump in without making sure I get my name stamped on it first, Most of the stuff iv come up with is really cool and ingenius and yes im proud of it, but its been a simple answer to a problem (mostly to do with mountain bikes) --- example, 20 years ago I came up with a seat post pump, because your seat post and seat is attached to your bike by means of a quick release anyways (on higher end bikes) why not use the dead end seat tube inside your seat post as a pump, it weighs next to nothing (very critical for us racers) and your aready carying it around anyways (very practical) it has its own perfect mounting bracket (the quick release) and will never fall off on to the trail, you get a flat, take your seat off within a second and place the seat end on the ground, thier is a hose that tucks into your seat and or seat bag, all that is needed is a littel flip handle and push rod in the end that stays in your bike frame (nuther bonus --- keeps the only lubricated parts of the pump out of the dirt and inside the frame when not in use) ----------- My inventions have to work good, they "usually" have to be practical, they have to have allot going for them in just about every catagory, I share this with you guys because I ran around the state of colo. 20 years ago with this device, after a couple years i seen it in a magazine, I have no idea if I thought about it first because to me its a "trinket", It took me about a minute of thinking to come up with it and find all the benifits and really no drawbacks, over the years I thought of many "trinkets" like this and built them and use them,,, yes I guess an idea like this could make somebody rich and if it came easy thats all good, but im not interested in attaching my name to a "trinket" as far as me being "proud" to call it mine --- I know how long it took to think about it and yeah its cool but its also inevitable,

      My bike cranks are an entirely different story, I have decades of R&D, there maybe 6.5 billion plus on the planet but I can pretty much reassure you that nobody has gone where i have gone,
      Most of my entire family is very mechanically inclined and some of my older bro's have been master mechanics for many decades yet it took them months of me explaining to them and showing them diagrams for them to be able to "grasp the concept"
      My cranks are an absolute marval -- and although a little complex their really are no "practicality" limits if you are producing more power on a bicycle, When it comes bicycle racing anyways, there are people dropping an extra 3,000 dollars to have a frame thats just a couple ounces lighter so as far as the word "practical" It will imediatly take a back seat to the end result, in this arena performance will overule both practicality and simplicity, I guarantee you that if you had way of produceing just 5% more power output that racers would gladly drop over 5,000 on a set of cranks -- it really wouldnt take a "huge market", People can have all the "trinkets" I come up with, but I get very passionate about my cranks, way to much time invested, way to much thinking --- The day will come when I have to trust someone, Im dreading that part of the proceedure...

      Comment


      • #4
        ROTFLMAO!

        Taking a phrase from another thread.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have a bunch of patents as part of my day job, but the process is really involved and convoluted. I would probably never pursue a patent if I didn't have a large corporate legal team to support me.

          Once you do get a patent, it doesn't really mean a lot until it's "tested" in court. The boneheads at the PTO only do the most superficial search of prior art, so there are scads of meaningless patents that are issued.

          Unless you're willing to pursue potential infringers in court, the time and money spent getting a patent may not be worth it.
          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

          Comment


          • #6
            I remember you commenting on this subject before Lazlo, There is a doctor in my little town who builds devises to be used on the end of scopes, I think its called a provisional patent? anyways -- its a fraction of the cost and he either upgrades it every year or lets it fall to the wayside if it doesnt show any promise, How do you feel about something like that? is it kinda just putting your idea out there for all to see without any protection?

            Sometimes I think about hooking up with a girl thats a patent attorney, then it makes you think of how bad things could really go if the relationship went south, nope, think I'll keep all of my eggs out of one basket!
            Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 07-08-2007, 12:06 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              The patent system in the US has become so perverted from the original intent that it is essentially useless. It's part of the problem in trade with other countries as the US allows patent protection to be granted for things that are unpatentable elsewhere such as "look and feel", biological organisms, business practices, computer programs and algorithms and other such nonsense.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

              Comment


              • #8
                What can I say about a nation that issues patents for human genes?
                http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ne_patent.html
                Just got my head together
                now my body's falling apart

                Comment


                • #9
                  The problem I see, for the little guy, is that for any kind of a patent, you have to be willing to bring the infringer to court to determine the validity of the patent, which is really expensive.

                  So here's two examples in one of how the system, in my opinion, is broken: there's a guy on Ebay selling a "powerfeed" attachment for the Bridgeport knee. It's an adapter for an electric drill. Now, we've all seen that attachment posted for eons here and on PM, so depending on his specific claims, there's a good chance that the drill adapter is prior art that's been in the public domain for a long time.

                  He indicates in the auction text that he has a patent pending, and it's very possible (likely, even) that the PTO will issue the patent.

                  So if you were to make and sell such a device, you could be infringing on his patent. But he would have to take you to court and prove to the judge or jury that your device infringes on his claims. Then, you could show that there were similar devices posted publicly, long before his patent submission, and his patent would be in jeopardy.

                  Now, I'm not a lawyer (although I happen to know that there are several members here who are ), so my opinion isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but your bicycle crank sounds like it could be worth a lot of money. If you own a small business selling parts like this, I would think it would be worth a consultation with a good patent attorney, to see if it's worth pursuing.

                  If you have the potential of selling a high dollar value of these cranks, then it probably would be worth pursuing infringers in court.

                  There's another angle on good patents from small businesses: in a lot of cases you can sell, or license the patent to a bigger company. So you can make money off the patent without having to go to court. In other words, you file your patent, then approach Shimano, Race Face, etc and offer to license the patent.
                  "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lazlo
                    The problem I see, for the little guy, is that for any kind of a patent, you have to be willing to bring the infringer to court to determine the validity of the patent, which is really expensive.

                    So here's two examples in one of how the system, in my opinion, is broken: there's a guy on Ebay selling a "powerfeed" attachment for the Bridgeport knee. It's an adapter for an electric drill. Now, we've all seen that attachment posted for eons here and on PM, so depending on his specific claims, there's a good chance that the drill adapter is prior art that's been in the public domain for a long time.

                    He indicates in the auction text that he has a patent pending, and it's very possible (likely, even) that the PTO will issue the patent.

                    So if you were to make and sell such a device, you could be infringing on his patent. But he would have to take you to court and prove to the judge or jury that your device infringes on his claims. Then, you could show that there were similar devices posted publicly, long before his patent submission, and his patent would be in jeopardy.

                    Now, I'm not a lawyer (although I happen to know that there are several members here who are ), so my opinion isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but your bicycle crank sounds like it could be worth a lot of money. If you own a small business selling parts like this, I would think it would be worth a consultation with a good patent attorney, to see if it's worth pursuing.

                    If you have the potential of selling a high dollar value of these cranks, then it probably would be worth pursuing infringers in court.

                    There's another angle on good patents from small businesses: in a lot of cases you can sell, or license the patent to a bigger company. So you can make money off the patent without having to go to court. In other words, you file your patent, then approach Shimano, Race Face, etc and offer to license the patent.

                    You make allot of sense Lazlo, Your last statement in all of this is actually more like it would have to go for me, All my spare funds (which isnt much) go to just refining what iv already created, I would get imediatly swallowed by the cracks,,, In many ways even if the percentage is very small it would be worth it to just drop in somebodies lap, for perhaps some royalties and a little down, and credit for building it, in some way shape or form -- for some reason thats important to me, Iv been checking out shimano's and everybody elses stuff for decades on the US patent site and some of the stuff is things I did within my first year of tinkering with power output, The majority is stuff any of us would think about for less than a minute and know why it wouldnt work --- yet its out there and has a patent on it!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you do go to another company with your idea AK, I would strongly advise bringing an attorney with you to document the visit.
                      It wouldn't be the first time that a bigger company tells the little guy "Sorry, we're not interested" and then shows up 6 months later with the same idea.

                      Most companies are probably not like that, but like every other part of life, there are some bad apples...
                      "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Provisional Patents and Books to Read

                        Been down this road. Go to the USPO Link>

                        http://www.uspto.gov/main/patents.htm

                        and look up Provisional Patent. While you are there learn how to do the Online patent search, and spend a few days looking to see if "Your Idea" has already been done. You will need to download a "special" viewer to see the Images. Bet you will find some that are very close to "Your Idea"

                        Then acquire two books the first one is more important than the other. Both together are required reading. I have had two Provisional Patents, and one idea went to test market stage. Both books can be purchased at Amazon.com.

                        #1. "Will it Sell? How to Determine If Your Invention Is Profitably Marketable" by James E. White

                        #2. Patent It Yourself" by Patent attorney David Pressman.

                        Then after (IF) you do get a US Patent, you need to do the same for the overseas market. Plan on maybe $100,000 for the whole works, and then the renewal fees.


                        I will amen Evans comments...








                        Originally posted by Evan
                        The patent system in the US has become so perverted from the original intent that it is essentially useless. It's part of the problem in trade with other countries as the US allows patent protection to be granted for things that are unpatentable elsewhere such as "look and feel", biological organisms, business practices, computer programs and algorithms and other such nonsense.
                        Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician - Fine Line Automation CNC 4x4 Router

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lazlo
                          It wouldn't be the first time that a bigger company tells the little guy "Sorry, we're not interested" and then shows up 6 months later with the same idea..
                          It's disturbingly common - a former employer had that happen with Brownells for a tool design.


                          HTRN
                          EGO partum , proinde EGO sum

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wmgeorge
                            You will need to download a "special" viewer to see the Images. Bet you will find some that are very close to "Your Idea"

                            ...


                            Thanks George, Iv had "innoview" for the past decade, iv ran dozens of searches over the years, and looked at everything from 1976 on,,, I no longer go that far back as iv covered it very well, but I know the last patent #'s that i checked and pick up at that point to current and then repeat after another time lapse and so on and so forth, Im always bracing myself if i let a big time lapse go and then do a search, so far nobody is thinking along the lines that I am but im also convinced that everything is eventually discovered, its just a matter of time, From what iv seen 95% of all alternative bike crank designs are hell bent in one area, the TDC/BDC dead spots, this is where for the most part mine differ...

                            A question to both You and Lazlo, If your armed with a provisional is that enough to aproach a large company with? or do they just take your idea and change it mechanically by about 3% and then legally call it thier own


                            For the record, A picture is indeed worth a thousand words esp. in this catagory, but their is one guy, i believe he's from denmark, His cranks actually get more complicated with the pics, I never have deciphered exactly what he's trying to acomplish, (but that could be a good thing) I really think that this person maybe insane, You fella's would not believe the amount of crazy ass machining involved either --- they are out of this world, I just grabbed his pictures from the basement because iv copied the most foolish , most complicated and everything else inbetween, His name is Lawaetz Veilberg although I dont know if thats last name first or what, he's from herskind denmark, the pat. # is 6,145,408, the date of patent is Nov. 14 2000,,,, the amount of pitures of just his apparatus cover a good portion of a little wall downstairs, I you have the time and want to totally freek your brain out go check out his lyrical spherical diabolical machine, I believe that this man may have some issue's, happens to the best of us (I outta know)
                            Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 07-08-2007, 11:35 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There's another angle on good patents from small businesses: in a lot of cases you can sell, or license the patent to a bigger company. So you can make money off the patent without having to go to court. In other words, you file your patent, then approach Shimano, Race Face, etc and offer to license the patent.
                              That generally isn't a viable approach. Many if not most companies with an R+D department don't want to talk to you or see anything you may have invented. The chances are they are working on something similar if what you have is relevant to their business and they don't want the scenario of appearing to have "stolen" your invention. When I worked for Xerox we were instructed to immediately terminate any conversation in which someone was offering to reveal an idea that pertained to Xerox products. Xerox made it clear that they did not accept outside submissions of ideas.

                              The way small business patents get picked up is for you to be already marketing the device and it catches the attention of somebody.
                              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X