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  • #31
    Very Impressive work. Thanks for sharing the details and pictures.
    "The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the greatest liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." H. L. Mencken

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    "When fear rules, reason and logic are ruled out."

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    • #32
      Evan needs a bong hit.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Evan
        It's less totalitarian than the USA. We still have firearms.

        We also have the freedom to travel and return at will. Too bad you can't say the same, at least not if you want to get back in again.
        I'm not sure how that particular post could be taken as much other than an attempt to inflame and 'bash'.

        I am mildly surprised (and pleased) that no one felt the need to bother defending against it. I will only point out that both America and Canada are both fine countries with many good people living in each. A bit of patriotism is not a bad thing, nor is the ability to maintain objectivity in the face of aggravation.
        Location: North Central Texas

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        • #34
          Nice work and post Doc, please keep contributing. I am a Canadian and I own a factory 629 3" with round butt. With full loads on an indoor range, I have never fired 6 shots from it without everyone on the range leaving! The muzzle blast is inhuman.

          I once fired it outdoors with no hearing protection, once. It felt like someone stuck shiskabob skewers in both my ear drums. It took about 3 days for my hearing to come back, mostly.

          I know of a couple of gunsmiths here who make a good percentage of their living shortening 6 and 8 " revolvers to 4.1" (actually 105 mm).

          Comment


          • #35
            I thinks Doc's project/post was all about precision machine work. Well Done.
            Wow... where did the time go. I could of swore I was only out there for an hour.

            Comment


            • #36
              how does cutting the barrel down affect the overall balance? is it harder to handle? and what about the accuracy?
              -As for balance, I prefer it. Less weight out at the end of a long lever, feels better to me. Your mileage may vary. As for ease of handling, that was part reason for the mod. Like the last one, this is a in-case-of-bears gun; the owner agreed with you fellows, and eventually decided the .357, while probably capable, wasn't quite capable enough.

              The shorter barrel and lighter weight- relatively speaking- make it a bit quicker to draw and handle, and more comfortable to carry. And as before, a marginal gun you have on you, beats a .600 Loudenboumer that you left back at camp.

              Accuracy wise, it printed six shots in a palm's width at 35 to 40 yards, offhand and double-action. That's more than adequate for the task at hand.

              It's less totalitarian than the USA. We still have firearms.
              -That you need permits and permission to own. In the US, we can buy, sell and trade freely- in most juristictions- with no paperwork at all, perfectly legally. We can also- again, prefectly legally- let our neices shoot machine guns and our friends shoot integreally-suppressed rifles.

              Alaska- the state I happen to be a resident of- allows for the free and unpermitted carrying of concealed weapons. Again, no paperwork, no cards, no hassles. Carry anything from a .50 Desert Eagle down to a .32 Seecamp, or, if I want, both.

              Totalitarian, is it? Or are you just looking for a reason to grump?

              Maybe a little more description for us NON-Gun people.
              -Easy. I chopped the barrel with a small air-powered abrasive cutoff wheel (I needed a thinner kerf than the full size chop saw) then used the same tool to slice the top third off the remnant. Then it was a simple matter of milling down the remnant so it was nothing but the sight ramp, and the grooved portion, and right at .250" wide.

              Mill a slot in the top of the back half to fit it, and solder in place. It's not even particularly exotic solder, but the part is light enough with a large enough bearing surface- both were well-tinned before assembly- that it shouldn't be a problem.

              The muzzle was 'dished' slightly- five degrees on the compound, as I recall- and a very light chamfer put on the crown at 45 degrees. The roll-marked lettering I very carefully polished away with a Dremel, and laboriously sanded the contour and matched the glossy-brushed stock finish.

              All fairly straight forward, took about four hours, as I recall.

              What kind of stainless is the 629 made from? Was it hard to turn (and bandsaw)?
              -Don't know the exact alloy, I'm sure S&W could supply me with such info should I desire it, but suffice to say it was pretty tough. The .357 job cost me two or three inserts- or corners, anyway- but this one had much less interrupted cutting. The slices were made with an abrasive saw- I expected the stainless to dull a hacksaw blade in short order.

              That little beauty might be a good candidate for some compensating ports, like a Mag-na-port.
              -I'm told that's being contemplated, and I agree. I've had the chance to try a couple of .454 Cassull's side-by-side; one a 6" ported, the other a 12" unported. The ported gun, despite being around half a pound lighter, had noticibly less jump. Same amount of recoil, of course, but much less muzzle jump.

              This isn't an excuse to bash. It is a legitimate concern about the appropriateness of this post on an international forum.
              -That's odd. You never even mentioned that in any of the eleven posts you made in my last snubby-gun thread, even though the discussion specifically touched on Canadian gun law. Why bring it up now?

              As for me bashing someone, that's funny coming from you. Short memory eh?
              -Nope. I specifically recall you grumping- much like now- about what you continually insisted was a horrendous and badly-thought-out "design flaw" on your circular saw, based wholly and entirely on the fact that you chopped your own cord, twice, due to the way you held the saw "at rest".

              We- at least I- pointed out at interminable length how that "flaw" you spoke of- the cord coming out of the base of the handgrip- was in fact, present in every single commercial circular saw available on the market today, encompassing at least sixteen models across no less than seven brands.

              After which, you spent a great deal of time trying to explain just how "stupid" that idea was, utterly and obstinately refusing to even consider that it might, after all, in fact, not be all that flawed, if, as the evidence clearly showed, that not one manufacturer used any other method of attaching the cord, and then dived quickly into personal attacks- again, as now, and again in the roof-safety-line thread- when the argument didn't go your way.

              On the other hand, here, I illustrated a perfectly legal procedure- and, it should be pointed out, one perfectly legal in Canada as well, as long as the operator simply leaves the barrel the correct length- and you reached deep into obscure Canadian legal minutiae in order to bash the mod, despite having ignored that exact same point of law almost nine months ago when you posted no less than eleven times- about Canadian gun laws- in a thread about a near-identical gun mod I'd done before.

              Really Evan, you've gone past "obstinate grump" and moved into outright whining.

              Also, your "inquiry" was not an inquiry. It was a complaint. There are plenty of threads on this BBS that I never open or read as the apparent content doesn't interest me. I suggest you develop the same habit.
              -Certainly. So by that same stroke, I can then post reviews of my favorite new heavy-metal bands here, as well as the latest "Bush is Stupid" chain-E-Mail, and a lengthy dissertation on hacking the new iPhone? After all, if you don't like any of that, you can just not click on it, right?

              Look, there's a reason people don't go to Photo.net and post articles about X-Box games, and they don't go to Muscle-car forums and start posting recipies for beefalo burger. I don't go to Strobist and look for articles on TIG-welding, and I don't go to Toolmonger to read up on india-inking techniques for bristol board.

              Your recent projects, as interesting as they are, are simply in the wrong place. There's very little or no machining to them. They would be far better suited to the Miller welding boards, Adrian's Metal Illness boards, or the MetalFab boards.

              I would say that the part circled in red includes fabrication.
              -I disagree. There's nothing "precision" about an abrasive chop saw and a MIG welder. Stairs, wagons and railings are not what, I think, anyone would consider "machinist" projects.

              And again, ignore it again if you wish, but again, I'm not saying you- or anyone else- need to stop posting such projects; what I am saying is perhaps we don't need to see each and every little tinkerey and whatsit you crank out.

              Do you post every single photo you take to Photobucket or Flikr (or whatever hosting method you use?) Of course not- you only show the best.

              Same idea here. Tractor's vaguely interesting, but again, it barely, if at all, involved precision machinework, and the result appeared as something we might have seen on Junkyard Wars. Instead of flooding us with fluff- and I'm not the only one complaining, oh he of selective memory- save back just the best of it, and if you feel like showing off your fridge-rack grilles and dryer hood scoops, trust me, the guys on the welding and general fab boards will be considerably more receptive.

              I know of a couple of gunsmiths here who make a good percentage of their living shortening 6 and 8 " revolvers to 4.1" (actually 105 mm).
              -I found out that I can buy 6" and 8" take-off (used) barrels all day long for pennies on the dollar. But a new 3" was $150 from the factory, and are almost never found for sale used. More people want the snubbies that the Dirty Harry Specials.

              Doc.
              Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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              • #37
                Specifically Entertaining

                Doc
                I didn't know you were a cartoonist/illustrator also

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Evan
                  I think posting information describing activities that are a felony offense is quite a bit more objectionable than my posts of metal fabrication.
                  WTF?

                  Nearly ALL guns are banned here in the UK Shotguns are ok at present if you have a reason to own one!

                  I thought that was an excellent piece of engineering and very well executed and finished, probably got a nice kick-back when its fired

                  I can not see the point in posting information stating local laws etc. The poster was not telling anyone to make the described mods, just showing his work. If i chose to shorten my shotgun 10", it would be because I wanted to do it not because i saw it somewhere.

                  Give us grownups a chance to make our own minds up as to what we do.

                  Dave
                  If it does'nt fit, hit it.
                  https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
                  http://www.davekearley.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I'm not sure how that particular post could be taken as much other than an attempt to inflame and 'bash'.

                    I am mildly surprised (and pleased) that no one felt the need to bother defending against it.
                    But describing our government as "totalitarian" isn't an attempt to inflame and bash? As for defending against it, that would be difficult since it is true.

                    I can not see the point in posting information stating local laws etc. The poster was not telling anyone to make the described mods, just showing his work. If i chose to shorten my shotgun 10", it would be because I wanted to do it not because i saw it somewhere.

                    Give us grownups a chance to make our own minds up as to what we do.
                    You might note that I haven't expressed any opinion as to whether I think such a modification is a good idea or not nor have I argued for or against the right to own firearms.

                    It is a question of appropriateness as the effect of posting such information can not only result in the direct censorship of this website in some countries but might even place somebody in jeopardy.

                    Totalitarian, is it? Or are you just looking for a reason to grump?
                    I suggest you review the Patriot Act.



                    and you reached deep into obscure Canadian legal minutiae in order to bash the mod,
                    Deep into obscure minutiae? That's rich. Barrel length restrictions are one of the most common restrictions imposed in nearly every jurisdiction that allows any sort of firearm ownership.


                    I can then post reviews of my favorite new heavy-metal bands here, as well as the latest "Bush is Stupid" chain-E-Mail, and a lengthy dissertation on hacking the new iPhone?
                    A good example of a logical fallacy. You claim my posts are off topic. That is then used to present a False Dilemma argument. Sorry, but that choice is not in question here. Try posting some of that and we will see how it goes.

                    -That's odd. You never even mentioned that in any of theeleven posts you made in my last snubby-gun thread, even though the discussion specifically touched on Canadian gun law. Why bring it up now?
                    Whether I mentioned it before or not doesn't change the argument. However, certain recent events such as the e-Bay ban do. It shows that they are most likely concerned about the same problems that I now point out. It also shows how seriously they regard the problem.

                    It seems Doc isn't very comfortable when the shoe is on the other foot.
                    Last edited by Evan; 08-23-2007, 04:39 AM.
                    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Very nice machine work Doc. Nice picture documentation also.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Evan
                        But describing our government as "totalitarian" isn't an attempt to inflame and bash?
                        Unfortunately, it appears to have been successful. Yes, I think it was an overreaction to an overreaction, but I can't imagine that any intelligent person here really thinks the statement true.

                        As for defending against it, that would be difficult since it is true.
                        Obviously I disagree.
                        Location: North Central Texas

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Evan
                          But describing our government as "totalitarian" isn't an attempt to inflame and bash?
                          -Gosh, I wonder who brought up the concept of "totalitarianism" in this thread.

                          It is a question of appropriateness as the effect of posting such information can not only result in the direct censorship of this website in some countries but might even place somebody in jeopardy.
                          -That's horsesh*t and you know it, Evan. As already noted in this thread, the UK- which I think we can both agree is pretty restrictive on firearms ownership- has yet to inflict a China-style ban on HSM, even though we've been discussing firearms mods for at least five years (and mentioning the RCMP maybe taking a dislike to a threaded barrel, no less.)

                          And in any case, "direct censorship"- as you well know, but are intentionally obfuscating the issue- simply means some small country would filter it out at the local server level. It would have zero effect on this board and/or it's operation, with the possible exception of a few people being unable to access it anymore.

                          Deep into obscure minutiae? That's rich. Barrel length restrictions are one of the most common restrictions imposed in nearly every jurisdiction that allows any sort of firearm ownership.
                          -Certainly. For rifles. There's essentially no restriction on handgun barrel length in the US. Well, come to think of it, it might be 2-1/2", but that's all but unenforced, as I know S&W has at least one "airweight" in .38 special that has a 1-7/8" barrel.

                          In any case, even if there was a restriction at 2.5", this guns' 3-1/8" is well over that, but you still want to decry and denigrate it over Canadian requirements, which I have to admit I had never heard of before today.

                          And besides all that, you yourself declared that, when people started quoting actual facts at you over your roof-harness, that you didn't care about OSHA (or equivalent Canadian) safety regulations, as it was private use, to be used only by you, and on your own roof.

                          You only seem worried about rules when it suits you.

                          A good example of a logical fallacy. You claim my posts are off topic. That is then used to present a False Dilemma argument. Sorry, but that choice is not in question here.
                          -It is, whether you wish to admit it or not. This board is specialized; it is not "general interest", nor "general fabrication", nor does it specialize in welding techniques.

                          All have been discussed here- and more- but they are off topic. And again- since you seem to keep ignoring the statement- I'm not staying stop. I'm saying maybe we don't need to see everything you stick, screw, glue or nail together, and maybe, just maybe, you ought to save the stuff you build with machine tools for posting.

                          Or, perhaps do like FRETS and post the projects to your own pages, and let us see them if we so choose.

                          Whether I mentioned it before or not doesn't change the argument.
                          -Sure it does. You only mentioned it now, knowing it's a specious argument, because it suits your ego to try and take my post down a mental peg or two.

                          The last time, you discussed Canadian gun laws at length, and in a thread where I chopped a gun barrel down to three inches- just like this one. But apparently the issue of it's legality and your concern over the hazard it poses to this board and it's readers, wasn't worth mentioning back then.

                          However, certain recent events such as the e-Bay ban do. It shows that they are most likely concerned about the same problems that I now point out. It also shows how seriously they regard the problem.
                          -Oh? And how so? Ebay is a private affair, and being multinational- meaning they actually have Canadian and UK and other offices, not just that their pages are viewable from other countries- and dealing with and being directly involved in the cross-border sales of damn near everything, they took whatever steps they deemed necessary.

                          That is not a government function, it was not a restriction imposed on them by some court, it was purely internal.

                          This board, on the other hand, handles no sales and has no regional offices. If the owners or moderators decide that something should not be posted, we try to follow those proscriptions, but that's as close as the analogy goes.

                          Were I to post something actually illegal, say, the instructions on how to make a pipe-bomb, the relevant authorities would hardly bother the board owners for anything more than my IP address, so they could come and whisk me, personally, away. The liability of the HSM owners would not extend much further than deleting the offending post.

                          And you know all this, sir. You're no idiot. But you are trying to deliberately confuse the issue with a few misplaced crocodile tears. Do you think the rest of us don't see that quite plainly?

                          It seems Doc isn't very comfortable when the shoe is on the other foot.
                          -I'm comfortable wherever the shoe is lodged. On the other hand, after three such shouting matches (this thread, the safety-rope and the circular saw) it's quite clear you cannot and will not admit the slightest error, instead putting in considerable effort in confusing the issue, ignoring points you can't argue, and moving on to other targets (wait, what does eBay have to do with Canadian barrel-length laws again? And why do Canadian laws concern an Alaskan firearm?)

                          You know what would have shorted this whole shooting match- so to speak- off at the starting line? If in my original post in your trailer thread, you'd been the least bit apologetic.

                          "Apologize for what?!?" you roar, of course. I didn't say "apologize", I said "apologetic". As in actually recognizing that other people use and read and browse this board besides you, and their tastes, opinions and concept of what this board should be and cover, just might differ a bit from yours.

                          Your reply to my post basically smacked of "tough titty, I'll do whatever I want to do", when all that was required was something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I didn't know anyone felt that way. It's just that I've finally been able to accomplish so much that I..." yadda yadda etcetera.

                          You know, actually acknowledging some of the rest of us as equals, not peons or sycophants.

                          Doc.
                          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I think you're all splitting hairs too much.

                            As long as it has a technical/engineering/metalwork content then personally I'm quite happy to see it and read it on this board.
                            FWIW I enjoyed both Doc Nickels (this) and Evans recent dump-truck post, even though I have no particular interest at all in the specifics of them.

                            Peter

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                            • #44
                              I agree with the hair splitting statement!. Altho There is a lot more precision machining on the pistol then the wagon!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                i like disturbed,and breaking benjamin, but theyre not that new of bands

                                geeze, and i was going to post pics of the wood lathe i made thats mostly welded. glad i didnt do that!!!

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