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  • #61
    Originally posted by andy_b
    as to "building" a "fully automatic Class III machinegun" in the U.S., that is illegal no matter what forms you fill out unless you are a licensed manufacturer. you can PURCHASE a pre-1986 machinegun after filling out the required paperwork and paying $200, but you can not BUILD one (meaning manufacture) as a private citizen.
    That's what I thought. It sounds like you could squeak-by using the receiver from a pre 1986 weapon, but I don't want to make it a Federal test case either.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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    • #62
      Full auto

      You can legally build a full auto Browning 30 or 50 Caliber machinegun from a registered right side plate. The right side plate is considered by the BATF to be the "gun" and must be legally transfered to you. That's easy to do.
      All of the Brownings I have built are semi-automatic and you can build as many of those as you wish with no paperwork or government notification as long as you don't engage in a buisiness of manufacturing guns for sale.
      I am currently looking for a registered side plate for a 1919A4 30 cal Browning or I may just buy one.
      Most people think that full auto machine guns are illegal. That's not true. Any American citizen can own a full auto gun - all you need to do is the BATF paper work and pay the $200 tax stamp fee.
      Sorry to hijack the thread but I started this.
      Bill
      I cut it off twice and it's still too short!

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      • #63
        A horse is a horse, of course, of course...

        Originally posted by lazlo
        I don't know why you're the one apologizing Seastar
        Perhaps, just to demonstrate that it can be done, that it is just barely possible for a thinking person to be wrong once in awhile and admit it.


        I will now attempt to join the ranks of those wise enough to keep their mouths shut.
        Location: North Central Texas

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        • #64
          I believe there are a handful of states that prohibit full auto.

          I'm curious, does the Fed consider the sale of any gun manufactured by an individual to be manufacturing guns for sale or is it a volume thing? It would be nice to be able to sell off a project once it's complete to fund the project that follows it.

          Originally posted by Seastar
          You can legally build a full auto Browning 30 or 50 Caliber machinegun from a registered right side plate. The right side plate is considered by the BATF to be the "gun" and must be legally transfered to you. That's easy to do.
          All of the Brownings I have built are semi-automatic and you can build as many of those as you wish with no paperwork or government notification as long as you don't engage in a buisiness of manufacturing guns for sale.
          I am currently looking for a registered side plate for a 1919A4 30 cal Browning or I may just buy one.
          Most people think that full auto machine guns are illegal. That's not true. Any American citizen can own a full auto gun - all you need to do is the BATF paper work and pay the $200 tax stamp fee.
          Sorry to hijack the thread but I started this.
          Bill
          Last edited by bhjones; 08-23-2007, 04:26 PM.
          Brett Jones...

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          • #65
            9mm or .380?

            Originally posted by andy_b
            a very interesting thread, i must admit. Doc, beautiful work on the pistol. i also liked the last one you did.

            as to "building" a "fully automatic Class III machinegun" in the U.S., that is illegal no matter what forms you fill out unless you are a licensed manufacturer. you can PURCHASE a pre-1986 machinegun after filling out the required paperwork and paying $200, but you can not BUILD one (meaning manufacture) as a private citizen.

            you can legally build suppressors and shorten rifle and shotgun barrels to restricted lengths as long as you again fill out the forms and pay the $200. i have never read a federal law stating a legal minimum pistol barrel length. not to say one doesn't exist.

            andy b.

            ps - Doc, my niece's first Class III exposure was a suppressed select-fire M-11. she was all of 8 years old.

            It was mine also, .380 FA suppressed 32 rounds sounded like a quiet sewing machine, then the brass hit the gravel, Ching-a- ling ching ching. Sweet soundless surprise

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            • #66
              Originally posted by lazlo
              Is it legal in the US to build a Class 3 (fully automatic) weapon? Do you have to use pre MAY, 1986 parts?

              I'd love to build the D&E Gatling gun, but with a power feed mechanism
              i beleive its legal to convert (build???) a semi auto rifle to fa w/ a registered auto-sear. the atf conciders the auto sear to be the "machinegun" and it is registered as such, and yes, it had to have been made and registered before 86 and you do have to do the $200 transfer of it.

              this is why you see rifles for sale that ARENT fa, that say "sear ready". you still need the registered sear.

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              • #67
                In Iowa, We can have class 3 firearms we just have to keep them in a sheriffs armory and fill out paper work to get them out each time you go shoot them, which has to be done a week or 2 in advance.
                You can NOT keep them in your home.But I will trade that BS for my right to concealed carry,thank you.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by bhjones
                  I believe there are a handful of states that prohibit full auto.
                  Yeah, but I'm in Texas -- they hand out Class 3 licenses with your birth certificate here
                  "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                  • #69
                    Don't know about Iowa but in Kansas concealed carry is a privilege if you take an approved training course and pass the KBI back ground check.

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                    • #70
                      Far from it I'm afraid. Australia is making available free internet filtering software as we "speak" to all who want it and are beginning ISP level filtering trials in weeks or months. Pro gun web sites will be on the list.
                      ... And? Filtering software is and has been available for years. My own site- which deals in paintball guns- has been 'filtered' by any number of schools, according to students who have attempted to view it while at school- simply because it contains the word "gun". In several cases, I'm told, it also filtered sites like Amazon.com, CNN.com, and thinkgeek.com, because they used words like "staple gun", "screw gun" and "caulking gun".

                      This is an issue for the entity emplacing the filtering software, not us or the board.

                      And again, even if it were our concern, your crocodile tears have come at least five years too late, as I already noted, since we've been discussing firearms on this board since it's inception. Why is it a concern now, all of a sudden?

                      It's about the appropriateness of this thread on this forum. This is something you brought up regarding my posting of a fabrication project and I am arguing that this thread is much less appropriate than my thread is.
                      -Of course. A project that directly involved both a mill and a lathe is somehow less appropriate for a precision machinist bulletin board than your chopsaw-and-MIG-welder project, based entirely on the possible effect a US project might have on an Australian ISP due to a Canadian gun law.

                      Sure, makes perfect sense.

                      I'm still glad I live where I can build and shoot military 30 and 50 caliber machineguns and cannons and collect and shoot all sorts of firearms - a lifelong hobby.
                      -I recently had (another) chance to participate in a machine gun shoot by some locals. All fully legal and papered, and owned by a couple of guys that enjoy nothing more than letting people who would ordinarily never have the opportunity to shoot one, well, shoot one.

                      Over the course of two or three such events in the last couple of years, I've had the chance to fire an Uzi (both suppressed and unsuppressed) a suppressed 10-22 (which is scary quiet) a 14" barreled M4 carbine (the pic of my neice posted earlier in this thread) a US clone of a Sterling, an original 1943 German MP-40, an MP-5k PDW, and a Browning M1919A1 air-cooled belt-fed, which had been converted to some European 8mm round as the guy could get it dirt-cheap on the surplus market.

                      They were all a great deal of fun, but it's a horribly expensive hobby. Twenty grand for a belt-fed something or other? Nah, I'd rather have another mill.

                      I'm interested to know how you centered the barrel in the lathe for facing and crowning. What surface did you use as a reference for indicating the barrel?
                      -Nothing more than grabbing the barrel by the frame threads in my six-jaw. Yes, it was a bit more stickout than I'd like, but I was careful and took very light cuts. The six-jaw spread the load out so the threads weren't damaged.

                      I used a turned spud similar to the first job, just to check concentricity, and it was less than a thou off. Were it a benchrest rifle I'd have taken more care, but it's a snubby close-range revolver, so a slight misalignment of the crown was deemed irrelevant.

                      On the .357 earlier, I milled an aluminum "bridge" that slid over the front sight, so I could hold it properly in my four-jaw, since I was needing to do a lot more than just light facing cuts, and I wanted it spot-on concentric.

                      Doc.
                      Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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                      • #71
                        Thiese guys are good......

                        Worth a look,It will answer some questions, and create some more for some of you.

                        http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/...i?;act=SF;f=98

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                        • #72
                          I see the 6 jaw chuck, thats a sweet unit. Im sure those are costly.

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                          • #73
                            Americans are justly proud of their constitution and the freedoms it guarentees The Patriot act is very scary to read, it is a Stalinist's dream.

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                            • #74
                              As an American I promise not to post plans to make missle batteries with incendiary warheads , so you guys have to figure it out for yourself. LOL



                              Besides, the AK-47's are comming into the USA through the mexican mafia, thats where that stuff come from. I know.
                              Last edited by tattoomike68; 08-23-2007, 06:28 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Seastar
                                You can legally build a full auto Browning 30 or 50 Caliber machinegun from a registered right side plate. The right side plate is considered by the BATF to be the "gun" and must be legally transfered to you.
                                Thanks Bill -- that's very interesting. Rebuilding a Browning .30 would be a lot of fun (maybe even more than building a Gatling)! I'll have to call around and see how much a side plate runs in Texas... By the way, have you seen the beautiful scale models that Bill Pace and company (here on HSM) have built?

                                Sorry to hijack the thread but I started this.
                                No, it's good. It's machinery-related, and I'm pretty sure Doc doesn't mind.
                                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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