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  • New source of CO2 by the millions of tons

    With the global warming issue hot at the moment, apparently a "new" source of enormous quantities of CO2 has been identified.

    Chinese coal mine fires.

    While coal mine fires exist elsewhere, including the US, some of the chinese ones are huge. The total consumption of the chinese fires is unknown, but has been estimated at up to 200 million tons per year. That would correspond to about 350 million tons of CO2, an emission that is resulting from a pure waste, not from any productive use.

    I have seen statements by reputable folks who suggest that putting them out is much more directly useful in combating global warming than full implementation of Kyoto, or all the "carbon credit systems" etc that have so far been proposed. The emissions may be comparable to a large proportion of the gasoline use in the US or europe, for instance.

    I was totally unaware of this matter until I saw a small article on it, and checked it out elsewhere.
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  • #2
    Time to call out the hellfighters.
    http://www.hellfighter.us/
    Allan Ostling

    Phoenix, Arizona

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    • #3
      After those are put out, go to work on this:
      http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocam...ic-highdef.php

      Then this:
      http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/centralia.htm

      And this is a problem:
      http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gwk/research/nyos.html

      And then the weirdest of all:
      http://www.oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ex...brinepool.html

      Every where you look there's methane or CO2. Damned SUV's

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      • #4
        I buy 50 pounds of CO-2 at a time for welding use.

        Comment


        • #5
          Why can't coal mine fires be stopped by sealing off the mine, starving the fire by cutting off the air supply. There must be a simple reason why this doesn't work, but I don't see it.
          Allan Ostling

          Phoenix, Arizona

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          • #6
            all hail

            and worship at the temple of algore. CO2 the deadly killer of all life, buy your carbon credits now and recieve a free steak knife set.
            Mine fires have been burning in PA. for almost 100 years most are too deep to put out.
            This nothing more than alarmist propaganda, the global warming scam is about making buck not saving the planet.Please spare me any righteous indignation unless you are walking to work,foraging roots and berries and using a treadle lathe.
            Non, je ne regrette rien.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by aostling
              Why can't coal mine fires be stopped by sealing off the mine, starving the fire by cutting off the air supply. There must be a simple reason why this doesn't work, but I don't see it.
              -There's enough oxygen available in the ore and/or rock itself, that the coal can burn even completely smothered. That's why there's still sixty and hundred-year-old coal fires burning underground in Pennsylvania.

              I'm not sure there is a way to extinguish such underground fires. You can't just pump in water, as it flashes to steam, the heat braks it down,and the oxygen and hydrogen add to the flame, just like trying to put magnesum out with water.

              There have been some experiments with things like polymer foams and the like, but then the problem is size- some of the smaller Pennsylvania fires cover whole square miles, or are at least spread out enough that there's no way you could attack each "hot spot" simultaneously, and not have one reignite the others.

              Doc.
              Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by chief
                Please spare me any righteous indignation unless you are walking to work,foraging roots and berries and using a treadle lathe.
                -You had me up 'til the treadle.

                I walk to work (shop's about fifty feet that way) I enjoy the occasional root beer, and we just picked two gallons of raspberries across the street.

                Not about to cut another 65 304 stainless parts by using a treadle lathe though. Al's just gonna have to shut up for an extra five minutes to compensate for my emissions.

                Doc.
                Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  I just read a statement by a GW enthusiast, about China and carbon credits, and how US production would not be curtailed because it involved additional CO2 generation..and she had the Gonads to say this.."Well lets say a Chinese company is making 10 million pounds of CO2 a year and does not have the money to modernise.. a US company could pay for the improvements in the Chinese factory, lets say a 20 % reduction in CO2 generation, and that would give the US company 2 million pounds of the needed Carbon offsets to increase their production."

                  And these people vote !
                  Not only will the Chinese take away our jobs and production, She expects us to modernise their factories !.
                  Worse yet.. where is the reduction of Carbon occuring in this transaction?
                  HAHA you guessed it..none..except from your SUV of course.
                  I wish there was a way to extract Carbon from their gene pool !.
                  Rich

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                  • #10
                    I don't think there's much CO2 generation caused from flipping burgers and that's pretty much all that is going to be left if we keep going like we are. We will be carbon negative before the next election cycle is over.

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                    • #11
                      "Global warming enthusiast". I like that - brought to mind a high school cheerleader image with shouts of "Go, Go Global Warming". Maybe I could sell that idea to the Sierra Club?

                      And they could push to ban all soft drinks. We all know that they are created with tanks of CO2.

                      I wonder how many "carbon offsets" allgore has to buy when he flies in a chartered jet to give a speech and tell us how "we" should do more to save the planet from global warming?

                      Glenn

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by aostling
                        Why can't coal mine fires be stopped by sealing off the mine, starving the fire by cutting off the air supply. There must be a simple reason why this doesn't work, but I don't see it.
                        This is because of faults in the ground ...
                        all the workings are on top of each other and at different levels ..


                        when the coal is worked out ...the empty void collapses and there is often a huge cathedral like cavern over the top of the collapse...can be 50 feet or more...and very possible for all levels of workings to combine into one full of rubble.
                        in uk coal mines, it would sometimes take months to seal off the areas effected ...
                        we had to drill holes hundreds of feet long from different seems towards leaks and pump poziment into possible sources of leaks of air ...round the clock job that was classed as an emergency...still took months and thousands of hours and $$$$$$££££

                        fires are usually started by spontaneous combustion (think compost heap)........and once going, suck in air like a vacuum cleaner.

                        btw ...they were never refered to as fires ...they were called heatings

                        bet the Chinese would just leave it ...or have organised there workings so its impossible to seal it ... and only possible by sealing off the whole mine.
                        ..even then it may take a couple of years to go out .

                        all the best.mark
                        Last edited by aboard_epsilon; 08-28-2007, 09:09 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Coal Fires

                          Wouldnt drilled holes supply the fires with much needed oxygen to keep burning?? If the air inlets were plugged would nt the fires go out?? HM just wondering

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                          • #14
                            The typical tree hugger ecologist doesn't have the common sense or ability to see reality. They are unreasonable in their demands for the most part. For her to say the USA should pay to clean up China don't surprise me. Look at the wildfires the tree huggers have caused by refusing to allow underbrush clean up.

                            So now they are going to jump on the underground fires in coal mines that have been a problem since coal mining started.

                            Everyone would be better off to enjoy the time remaining untill the Earth recycles it's self and purges it's self of all life and starts over. No one can change the natural cycles of the Earth.
                            It's only ink and paper

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                            • #15
                              Although the causes may be debateable global warming is no longer in doubt. A few days ago I snapped some pics on my way to town. We have had such warm winters the last 15 or so years that the pine bark beetles haven't been killed off during the winter. We didn't have many pines around the immediate area, it's mostly Douglas Fir. The ten percent or so pine we did have is all dead now, even most of the immature ones. This is highly unusual as the bark beetles don't like the small trees. This is what it looks like along the road.



                              I had to cut down the 30 or 40 pines on my property as they were all killed as well. More unusual is the sudden death of a large percentage of the common western junipers, some of which are hundreds of years old. There were many patches around here but in the last two years about 90 percent of them suddenly died.





                              Nobody, including a friend who is a registered professional forester, can tell me for sure what has killed them. It's a mystery but it must have something to do with the climate in some way. My friend suggested it might be due to uncommonly high survival rates for meadow voles that nest in the junipers and chew the bark. This doesn't usually kill them but there has been a huge explosion in the vole population in the last couple of years. It isn't cold enough in winter.
                              Last edited by Evan; 08-28-2007, 11:15 AM.
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