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  • OT: Shop/Barn building configuration

    We are trying to lay out our new place and need to figure out where and how to configure the house, barn, machine shed, shop. I think we have established a nice secluded place for the house on the upper part of the property. Unknown whether I can fit the shop up there as well at this time, but it will be tight.

    Our animals (sheep, cattle and who knows what else), and the garden will go on the lower part of the property in/near the fields. The distance between the house and the lower property is about 1/4 mile on a private gravel driveway down a little hill. We will probably use an atv to shuttle between the two. It makes sense to me to have at least the barn down by the animals, but I'm wondering about the shop. We will have water and electricity (but not septic) to any structures that end up on this lower property.

    As nice as it would be to have my shop right next to my house (as it is now), I'm wondering if at the new place it makes more sense to put the shop down by the barn on the lower field??? I guess I've been pretty spoiled being able to walk 20 feet to my shop from the house all these years...

    That begs the question if it should be one larger structure that would serve the function of shop, barn, and machine shed, or have two or more smaller structures? These structures would likely be of pole barn type construction with the shop insulated and finished inside.

    I was wondering what others thought or have experienced on this matter? Anybody have an all in one building that adequately serves all these functions? Maybe machine shed (open on three sides), on the back side, shop with roll-up doors on the front side, and barn on the end?

    Thanks

    Whoops, forgot to add my double bonus OT question... We are considering purchasing a used mini track hoe for developing the properties and was wondering if anyone has input on makes and models to look for? Everybody seems hot on rubber tracks for these things, but I wonder about their durability, traction, and cost for replacement? Or maybe there is another forum I could ask this question at as well.
    Last edited by Wayne02; 09-17-2007, 12:35 PM.

  • #2
    I can only offer this. For the first time we are living in the house of my dreams.

    The house aligns up perfectly with our prevailing SouthWest winds. The barn door can be left open in the biggest blow as it faces South East. Down wind from the barn is the house. The barn eats up a lot of wind velocity out here in the open field area we are in and softens the effects of wind on the house. Our garage door also faces South East. Our kitchend is on the Southeast wall of the house as well as the dining room and one bedroom upstairs. This means we get the morning sun in the morning. Nothing makes breakfast taste better than eating it with squinting eyes due to a nice morning sun.

    Our kitchen porch is shaded from the daily sun because of some huge elms and maples next to the driveway. In the Fall, the sun gets thru to the porch. Future plans call for putting screens and glass on the porch. Slate floor on the porch should soak up some of the fall, winter, spring sun and release it throughout the day to the porch. An accident broke my ankle so the porch is still on hold till I'm either well enough to finish myself of we are able to hire some one to do it for us.

    I'd just suggest you think about the East and morning sun as it is mentally therapudic and also the prevailing winds and how they affect open barn doors, garage doors and sitting on the porch while it's raining.

    good luck, have fun.
    Last edited by Your Old Dog; 09-17-2007, 01:07 PM.
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    Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

    It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you can, put the shop near the house.

      Wherever there are farm animals there will be humidity, flies, and corrosive vapors from their waste. Even if you seal off the shop from the machine shed and the animal spaces you will still have annoyances from the flies.

      If the shop is near the house you will bless your decision to put it there when the weather is cold or bad.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree completely with Forrest. My shop building is located maybe 150' from my house so by some standards its close, but I still find that I end up having a bunch of duplicate tools in my small basement shop/reloading room because its not so close as it might seem. Running out in the weather for a pair of needle nose is a chore. Some of these duplicate tools are easy to come by and cheap, but I find trying to have one of everything in both places is unrealistic. Think of easy access to things like bolts, screws, sandpaper, etc and it sure is nice to think about all that stuff in only one place and quickly accessible.

        I should consider, I suppose, that I really do have my dream shop...I have spent years feathering the nest in a nice new 30x40x14 post frame building. I am not ungrateful for what I have, but you do learn things the first time that you would do differently the second. You also have to make compromises sometimes that you would not do if you were laying out a home site and shop location from scratch. In my case, had the property layout allowed for it, I would do things differently. I think the ideal would be a nice big shop building connected to the house by some sort of breezeway so you could run out there without getting wet. You tend to use your shop more if going there is not a small trip unto itself.

        Paul
        Paul Carpenter
        Mapleton, IL

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pcarpenter
          I think the ideal would be a nice big shop building connected to the house by some sort of breezeway so you could run out there without getting wet. You tend to use your shop more if going there is not a small trip unto itself.

          Paul
          Is it Main Vermont area where they had long roofed over walkways so they could get to the barn in extremely heavy snowfalls?
          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

          It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pcarpenter
            I agree completely with Forrest. My shop building is located maybe 150' from my house so by some standards its close, but I still find that I end up having a bunch of duplicate tools in my small basement shop/reloading room because its not so close as it might seem. Running out in the weather for a pair of needle nose is a chore. Some of these duplicate tools are easy to come by and cheap, but I find trying to have one of everything in both places is unrealistic. Think of easy access to things like bolts, screws, sandpaper, etc and it sure is nice to think about all that stuff in only one place and quickly accessible.

            I should consider, I suppose, that I really do have my dream shop...I have spent years feathering the nest in a nice new 30x40x14 post frame building. I am not ungrateful for what I have, but you do learn things the first time that you would do differently the second. You also have to make compromises sometimes that you would not do if you were laying out a home site and shop location from scratch. In my case, had the property layout allowed for it, I would do things differently. I think the ideal would be a nice big shop building connected to the house by some sort of breezeway so you could run out there without getting wet. You tend to use your shop more if going there is not a small trip unto itself.

            Paul
            i agree completely. heck, my shop/garage is 50' from my house and i have some duplicate tools in each. a future plan is to build a breezeway connecting the shop to the house. it would already be completed if it wasn't for the small detail of a stream between them. if you have to build two buildings (one by the house and one by the animals), just house the machines and a small material supply area in the shop by the house. use the barn for storing any large quantities of items (metal, wood, machines you plan on rebuilding, etc.). i would at least have an area in the barn where you could work on a large project like welding a vehicle frame or building that 1/2-scale steam locomotive you know you want.

            andy b.
            The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

            Comment


            • #7
              I can testify to being struck by lightining -in a manner of speaking*- while walking the 100 yards between the house and the shop. The trip may be good excersize, but in bad weather it can become a minor trial.

              Will you have toilet facilities in the new shop? If not, add a trip or two to the daily commute, and plan ahead so you make it in time.

              *the lightning incident: while making the trip under an umbrella, lightning struck about a mile away. This apparently induced some current in the umbrella frame and a spark jumped between the shaft of the umbrella, around the corner of the handle to my thumb, much like a spark jumping along the surface of an old coil or distributor tower on a damp or oily engine. Gave my thumb a poke like that from a spark plug wire.
              Weston Bye - Author, The Mechatronist column, Digital Machinist magazine
              ~Practitioner of the Electromechanical Arts~

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wes1
                Will you have toilet facilities in the new shop? If not, add a trip or two to the daily commute, and plan ahead so you make it in time.
                "IF" the shop could fit next to the house on the upper property then I could plumb it into the house septic. But if it is located on the lower field I would probably have to use a composting toilet and pee out back, as it would be to costly to put a second septic in just for the shop in that location.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wayne

                  I agree with what Forrest said... keep your shop as far away from the animal barn as is practical. From what I remember from my childhood on a dairy farm, cows drink about 10 gal of water a day and only excrete about 8 - the rest is expelled in their breathing as water vapor. I can remember frost 1" thick on the inside of our dairy barn.

                  Make access to your shop as convenient as possible - you'll use it more and appreciate it more as time goes on especially if you develop mobility issues as time goes on. It's easier to get to the shop 50' away with a sprained ankle than hopping on the quad for a 1/4 mile ride each way.

                  As far as a mini excavator, why not use your shop and build your own backhoe? There's even free plans available if you're motivated enough.

                  My $.02
                  Cam
                  Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    http://www.ytmag.com/crawlers/wwwboard1.html

                    The link above is one place to ask about the excavator. Have you considered a backhoe? It is a much better tool for the farm.

                    As for siting the shop I have to ask will said shop be for repair and maintenance of the farm equipment? Or just the hobby shop to play in? If you have animals in western Washington then your going to have mud also. Bringing equipment near the house for repairs also will bring in mud. I would keep the shop away from the house so that there is seperation of farming and living. Mother isn't happy to find a crawler or backhoe in the driveway getting fixed because the shop is just out the backdoor. I know this from personel lifestyle. I would also suggest that you put ins seperate driveways to the outbuildings and keep the house driveway seperate. Again this is keeping things clean. I have a real poor layout here in that I have to bring out a rig from the barns to the house to transfer feed fron the pickup to the tractor to move it back to the barns. Its a mess all winter. The city boys will always suggest a close shop for good reason, but the farmer know better. May I also suggest that you put a changing room in the barn so that barn boots and cloths stay in the dirty area and house clothes are put on before leaving the barn.

                    As for septic, learn to pee in the grass and do your sittin before leaving the house. A true farmer will walk past the bathroom to the outside to save water and avoid having to aim.

                    lg
                    no neat sig line

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "A true farmer will walk past the bathroom to the outside to save water and avoid having to aim.

                      And if its snowy you can practice your penmanship. I got halfway through the Preamble to the Constitution once. I petered out (so to speak) after "...provide for the common Defence;..." You have to pace yourself and permit no distractions.

                      Uhh... I expect the thread to rapidly go downhill from here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=Forrest Addy
                        Uhh... I expect the thread to rapidly go downhill from here.[/QUOTE]

                        If it does then we'll assume that it was you who pushed it over the edge. When was the last time you had snow in your neck of the woods?
                        lg
                        no neat sig line

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          backhoes

                          Been lurking for a while without posting and this seemed like a good oportunity to raise my ugly head.
                          back hoe plans available from this link
                          www.ubuilditplans.com
                          The finished beast is almost identical to a CanDig (google it) Personal experience says buy the plans and build it yourself, the CanDig machine is inadequate in some areas. Don't want to say too much more than that given the availability of lawyers in the US of A!
                          Do it right and you can tow the finished beast behind an ATV or car, van whatever. It can be manouvered by hand if the ground surface isn't too bad. You move it around when in use with the bucket, real simple and very easy to get to grips with. Low ground weight and pneumatics so surface damage is kept to a minimum and it is possible to build it so that you can wheel it through doorways or narrow gates for access to 'impossible' areas. And they do dig very well. They are not as powerful as a tractor mounted back hoe but walk all over most of the smaller rubber tracked mini-diggers.
                          I'm going to crawl back to my 'lurking hole' now.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wayne02
                            Whoops, forgot to add my double bonus OT question... We are considering purchasing a used mini track hoe for developing the properties and was wondering if anyone has input on makes and models to look for? Everybody seems hot on rubber tracks for these things, but I wonder about their durability, traction, and cost for replacement? Or maybe there is another forum I could ask this question at as well.
                            Wayne,

                            i'll toss out a few things to consider regarding the track hoe. what are your needs, digging a few trenches, moving dirt, moving machine tools, smoothing banks, cleaning up piles of farm animal dung, etc.? my entire life i've wanted a backhoe. i just think they are the coolest and most versatile of tools. i know a few guys with them and they always say they would never be without it once they've gotten it. i have yet to purchase a backhoe. what i DO have is a 1954 Oliver OC-46 crawler with a loader. it digs, hauls, moves, loads, etc. i couldn't even guess how many tons of dirt and fill and concrete and trees i've moved with it. there is a small trench i need to dig one of these days, but i figure i'll just rent a track hoe for $250 or whatever it is to dig the trench in a day. i can use the Oliver to shove the dirt back over the hole when i'm finished.

                            what i'm saying is, if you have a lot of trenches to dig, get the track hoe. if you have two trenches to dig and 100 tons of dirt and crap to move, a loader will be WAY more useful. of course, if a cheap, old Case Construction King backhoe comes along, buy it.

                            andy b.
                            The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I wandered around Waynes photo site and if the pictures of his land are where he is going to build then no homebuilt hoe is going to do much good. The crawler that he shows on there is small for the work it is doing and it looks to be along the size of a 450 case or about 15k-18k lbs. Ain't no landscapers track hoe going to be adequate.
                              lg
                              no neat sig line

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