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big shaper in action - folks are always asking to see one

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  • big shaper in action - folks are always asking to see one

    after watching the rookie thread cutting video, i was poking around youtube and found this. it's about the size of my old G&E shaper, and functions almost identically. i remember a few questions on how the cutting bit moves and what the clapper box does. in the video you can hear the clapper box slap back into place at the end of each backstroke. in a few scenes you can see it. one thing i noticed is on my shaper, i believe the ram moves forward when the drive-dog on the big gear is on top. in this video the ram moves forward when the drive dog is on the bottom. you'll understand if you watch the video (and don't already know what i mean). i haven't taken the side covers off my shaper in a while and watched it run, but at least i thought that was how it worked. theoretically the shaper should run in reverse, but the table traverse would be backwards (mine operates correctly, so my motor is running correctly).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYe-b-iGb0&NR=1

    anyway, i just thought it was a cool video.

    andy b.
    The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

  • #2
    Yep, he's running it backwards. Love the crank left in the stroke adjust, too.

    Joe

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    • #3
      When I filmed my shaper vid I made sure to highlight the arm to show it's running the right direction - directly as a result of watching this vid

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZFFYIvTLiE

      And I have better music - hehehe

      BTW, I think you hear the clapper because the table moves during the cut - the cutter is dragging back on uncut metal. Mine claps only if it rides over chips because there's nothing there on the return path.
      Last edited by dp; 10-22-2007, 10:47 PM.

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      • #4
        I like youtube videos. I asked craig about adding the UBB code to the forum so we could see them in the post window and he said he would have the webmaster look into it.

        It would make a simple code like [yt=video name]BZYe-b-iGb0&NR[/yt]

        http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=142236

        He could do it himself by going to admin>forums and moderation>general>edit and click the "enable html" box.
        Then the code would look like this...
        <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BZYe-b-iGb0&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BZYe-b-iGb0&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

        It does not eat bandwith because the videos are streamed from youtube and it wont bug dial up users because they dont autoplay.

        I wish this forums admins had some computer skills.

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        • #5
          Shaper vice

          Thanks Andy.

          I really did enjoy it - like old times.

          What I did like though was that vice and the "adjustable" jaws.

          It's rare to see a pic with the vice jaws parallel to the stroke even though they are frequently used that way.

          That is a great way to "go slow, go deep, up feed and into it" for getting under and cleaning up oxy/acet (or plasma etc) cut edges as the shaper is one very powerful machine.

          I was at my supplier's shop recently and they had a "fixed" and "movable" set of "vice jaws" that bolted directly to the mill (shaper) table and could utilise the whole length of the table. Had a sort or "angle-lock" device or arrangement on at least one jaw. It seems very "massive" and "built for real work". It effectively made the whole mill table into a big vice.

          I should have had the camera with me - I will make sure I do next time and I will post the pics.

          Thanks for the link - that is a great example of a shaper in action.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by tattoomike68
            I like youtube videos. I asked craig about adding the UBB code to the forum so we could see them in the post window and he said he would have the webmaster look into it.
            There's a problem with that - many people on dialup will be required to dl the vid even if they don't wish to see it. For example - a vid is buried on page 3 of a 6 page thread. When the dialup'er gets to page 3 his computer starts loading that pig and the next thing you know he's p*ssed.

            It can also be hard on the server side if you're paying for bandwidth when people directly link your images - they're sucked down regardless of whether the viewer would like to see them or not, and it's a waste of server bandwidth to the image host to provide undesirable content. One of the worst things that can happen to a server is to be linked by Drudgereport.com - ask me how I know. It kills your online business for days.

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=dp]There's a problem with that - many people on dialup will be required to dl the vid even if they don't wish to see it. For example - a vid is buried on page 3 of a 6 page thread. When the dialup'er gets to page 3 his computer starts loading that pig and the next thing you know he's p*ssed.

              they're sucked down regardless of whether the viewer would like to see them or not, QUOTE]

              The youtube mod is tested and does not work like that. The dial up users wont get bogged down because the stream has not started (you have to hit the Play button), it also causes no server load here because the files are not hosted here.

              I admin two large notorious web sites that get nailed by trolls and hackers and if there were issues with it I would know about it.

              Even the Home model engine forum on a cheesy free server will play the videos just fine.
              Last edited by tattoomike68; 10-22-2007, 11:09 PM.

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              • #8
                I was just about to edit my post to "ammend and extend" my remarks - once the play button is hit the player will dl the entire file even if you hit the stop button. To truly stop it you have to leave the page. And I was also going to add that while youtube won't auto play that may not be true for all sites that offer vids and surely isn't the case for sites that offer vids that also don't use a video streaming server (I do so it's not a problem for me when I bother to use it). So it's still something to cogitate about, particularly when content leeches are so prevalent.

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                • #9
                  I will just have to ask sites tech about it. I can help if needed.

                  We could have some machine tool porn topics going on.

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                  • #10
                    I did find this video of a big planer taking a long cut.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsQnKJGYtk

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tattoomike68
                      I will just have to ask sites tech about it. I can help if needed.

                      We could have some machine tool porn topics going on.
                      Works for me - there could even be a T-shirt that says "Show us your nibs".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dp
                        When I filmed my shaper vid I made sure to highlight the arm to show it's running the right direction - directly as a result of watching this vid

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZFFYIvTLiE

                        And I have better music - hehehe

                        BTW, I think you hear the clapper because the table moves during the cut - the cutter is dragging back on uncut metal. Mine claps only if it rides over chips because there's nothing there on the return path.
                        cool vid of yours! i never saw it before.

                        on mine if i have the autofeed engaged, the table moves just as the ram is at the end of the backstroke. in the shaper books i have it specifically warns not to manually move the table while the ram is moving over it (either forward or back). i'm guessing chunks of cutter would go flying before anything else does. i think the clapper clapping may depend on the angle the cutter is ground, the wear on the machine, and maybe even if you're running the motor backwards.

                        and yes, i liked how the ram stroke adjusting wrench was left in the adjusting hole. that's just asking to whack a leg or arm.

                        andy b.
                        The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tattoomike68
                          I did find this video of a big planer taking a long cut.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsQnKJGYtk
                          You could make a hell of a lot of Aloris cutter holder blanks with that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What a laugh. Most every thing possible to do wrong on a shaper is visible in the video. Beside the machine motor running backwards (there an arrow on the belt cover; sheesh) and thus isn't lubricating:

                            - he left the stroke adjuster crank on the stem major safety item but he might have done so purposely to show how the bullgear rotates (backwards in this case). It needed a placard with a "don't do this in your shop" disclaimer.

                            - the cut is being fed towards the movable jaw of the vise - a general no-no,

                            - the clapper box angle should be tilted opposite the feed direction so it relieves away from the shoulder,

                            - the tool tray is full of junk ready to jam the cross slide from feeding (until something breaks),

                            - the machine ram ways and probably the rest of the working parts are dirty,

                            - it's a slow rough cut (with HSS you should be getting brownish chips), I'd feed that cut 1/16" per stroke at 70 strokes per minute - or I would if the motor was running the right direction.

                            - it's hard to see but I think the tool might have too much end clearance and the toolholder has a built in 10 degree tool rake angle. Neutral rake tools work best in shapers and planers but they are very hard to find.

                            - and it looks like a couple of NEC violations on the electrical.

                            Outside of that this video is a good example of not having your ducks in a row in the glaring light of public exposure. All this stuff I learned from Eldon Struve in my first day as a 19 year old apprentice when I started my career in shapers July 11th 1961, a day which will live in infamy.

                            Adding after the fact. I think the guy who did the referenced shaper video may have been inexperienced because so many rooky mistakes and safety points are present. If he tunes in here I hope he'll take the hassle with a good spirit. That's the fate of a rooky who innocently screws up: he gets ridiculed by the very people who wish to help him mend his ways. They made the same mistakes in their day and got it in the neck from their mentors. Chagrin shortens the feedback loop.
                            Last edited by Forrest Addy; 10-23-2007, 05:59 PM.

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                            • #15
                              The Last Machinist

                              Forest if you thought that one was bad... this one should make your cringe.

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3Hgb98xxFc
                              Wow... where did the time go. I could of swore I was only out there for an hour.

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