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Tapping/threading on a turret lathe?

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  • beckley23
    replied
    Imagine the slide tool as the turret's version of the cross slide with a tool post. I've used them to turn, bore, cut snap ring grooves, champfer, etc. The one shown has a screw feed, and up and down stops, and a micrometer dial on the screw. I've got a couple that are fast action, a quarter turn of the handle moves the slide approx 1/2", I used them to cut an internal snap ring groove and champfer the ID at the same time. They can also be compared to a boring head, only much stouter.
    The knee tool is as stated above.
    The whole object of turret lathes is to get as many tools in the cut at one time as possible. That 3 tool multi holder is small compared to some I've seen in catalogs, with 5 or 6 holes and provision for overhead pilot bar for increased rigidity.
    The TL is currently set up to run a very simple part. 1"D X 3"+ long with 1"-8 X 1-1/4" L thread on one end. The bar stop, knee tool for champfering the end, die head, and cut off tool were used. The drill is from a previous job. The thread was cut in 2 passes, one roughing and one finishing, the die head has a lever on the back side for this purpose.
    I've used this TL to thread the ends of 20' long bars with 12" long threads.
    Harry

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  • Rustybolt
    replied
    hat is the purpose of a knee holder? More like why is it knee shaped?
    And the sliding tool holder...what do you do with that?


    Knee holder? It allows you to take a rough longitudinal cut off the material. It can also be used to make a large champher on the end od the bar. Some had a provision to secure a centering drill in the shaft so the bar could center and champher in one go. it can be used for face grooving as well.

    The idea is to combine or overlap as many sequences as possible.

    Sliding tool holder. It can be used to machine an internal groove or relieve the inside of a hole, leaving a lip in the front and back. If the front and rear slides are otherwise occupied it can be used to do some external turning as well.

    It's really only limited to what you can think up to use it for

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  • torker
    replied
    Holy...I don't know what to say! Harry...all you guys! Thanks a bunch! I've searched google for this kind of info...read a couple dozen pages and none of it has even come close to the stuff you guys are showing me.
    Thanks for taking the time and effort with this!
    Harry, that's a big honkin machine! LOL! Some of your tool holders are as big as the cross slide on my little lathe.
    A couple of questions...What is the purpose of a knee holder? More like why is it knee shaped?
    And the sliding tool holder...what do you do with that?
    I'm going to have to read this thread a few more times to digest more of this.
    I at least have a fighting chance of picking off some stuff from Ebay now. I'm glad I never bought some of the stuff I was looking at before I asked this. It'd never work on my little outfit.
    Thanks again!
    Russ

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I should have known beter, without the shank locks in the turret, But it is nice.

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  • beckley23
    replied
    It's a #5 J&L, but the slide tool and roller turner are for my #3W&S, as is some of the other tooling.
    It's a 2-1/2" bar capacity, 15 HP and with hydrualic bar feeder weighs about 7500 LBS. IIRC it was made in 1951.
    Harry

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Harry, It is a W/S, but what #? There is just enough difference from my 1941 #3 to make me wonder.

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  • beckley23
    replied
    Tapping head and tap holder. I made the holder and the 2 set screws are for alternate positions of the tap's square shank.


    Roller turner on left, slide tool on right.


    Adjustable tool holders.


    The die head mounted in a shop made adjustable tool holder.


    Harry

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  • beckley23
    replied
    Russ,
    Here are some pictures of some of the tooling I've got for my turret lathes. I know this stuff is a lot larger than what you have, and some of it is flange mounted, but you should be able to find similar items to fit your machine. In case you're wondering, the blue hose is for thru the tool coolant on one station of the turret.
    The first 2 pictures are of a set up I have for running the a job and the names of the tools will start with the tool in line with the spindle and go CCW.

    Revolving feed stop, knee tool, and empty straight shank holder.


    Drill chuck with 3/4" drill bit, die head, and 3 hole multi tool holder(empty).


    the next 2 pictures are of the die head opened and closed, note the position of the handle and chasers.




    I'll continue in the next post.
    Harry
    Last edited by beckley23; 01-02-2008, 07:33 PM.

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  • moldmonkey
    replied
    I'm having photobucket issues but here is my tapping head disassembled. More pics to come.

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  • torker
    replied
    OK...now I see! I thought I'd have to make a bushing to fit the turret, then drill it with the collet chuck so it would be centered. Couldn't figure how I'd get all the different sizes of drill bits to fit in the collets. Ah..so much to learn!
    Thanks for the pics! Helps a lot to see what you meant.

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  • moldmonkey
    replied
    On the tap holders, I stepped up the drill sizes until I got a loose slip fit for the small taps. On the larger ones, I bored for a slip fit. The taps are held in place with setscrews. I used drill rod. On some I had to do some polishing as drill rod isn't perfect.

    On the drill bushings I have made so far, same deal.

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  • chandler0109
    replied
    Hey Russ

    Drill holders for turret lathes and screw machines are of two primary designs, the ‘V’ type, usually utilized for smaller drills of a given diameter range, they locate the drill in a ‘V’ similar to clamping round stock in a ‘V’ block, the other type utilized drill holder bushings, these bushings would often be quite crude, often they would just have a cross hole drilled in them so a setscrew could tighten down on the shank of the drill through the hole in the bushing.

    The key to all of this is that ALL tool holders are adjustable to put the tool on center with the spindle – accuracy is directly proportional to the patience of the guy setting up the machine. The manufacturers realized there was no way that the turret holes would be exactly in line with the spindle given the mechanism involved. If you break it down, the drill can be held in a pretty crude fashion as long as it is held straight – parallel to the shank.

    Here’s a picture, the one in the upper left is the ‘V’ type, the two capscrews on the sides are for adjustment – for centering the tool – the tool is compromised of two primary pieces, the shank side and the drill side, the faces where the two meet is where the adjustment takes place. The one just below it is the bushing style, it adjusts in a similar fashion, but uses a bushing between the drill and holder. It would work equally well if the bushing were split or the setscrew passed through a hole and seated on the drill shank.



    As far as making the bushings, I haven’t been around here long enough to know what equipment you have at your disposal, but if you’re asking how to make the bushings themselves just on this turret lathe – well that might be a challenge, it could be done, I mean it’s done all the time that’s the kind of work these things do. I guess what I’m saying, is that if you’re going to be building tooling for this thing you really need a lathe for the one off stuff …………… Well, I guess not really, you’re a crafty guy, just take the stock size that fits your particular drill holder, you’ve undoubtedly got a couple of drill chucks you could fit to ¾ straight shafts, collet the stock, spot drill and drill for the size drill you want to hold, then either slit the bushing or cross drill it on drill press or your mill drill.

    Incidentally, the turret holes on these machines can be sleeved with a split sleeve – I’d do that and bring yours down to 5/8” – lots more tooling, AND if you acquire any ¾” stuff, simply pull out the sleeve

    Hope this helps

    Chandler

    Just found this example - it shows the adjustment for centering better - under the head of those hex head capscrews is a sufficiently oversized hole to allow for a fair amount of adjustment, in practice the screws were left a little loose and the drill was advanced into the work carefully by hand, it naturally wants to find center, so once on center, the operator snugged up the screws, then checked to see if it was still on by running it into the work again - sometimes you'll use an indicator in the spindle for very precise work.

    Last edited by chandler0109; 01-01-2008, 01:05 PM.

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  • Rustybolt
    replied
    There are bushings for the different tap shank sizes.
    They usually run;
    '00' = 1/2 inch (the OD of the bushing)

    '0' = 5/8

    3/4 is 3/4

    '2' = 1 inch

    I never dealt much with the larger sizes. Most of the home shop people will use the above sizes. Unless you have room for some really big machines.

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  • Rustybolt
    replied
    Torq. I know a little about tool bushings. Turn the OD to size and drill the ID undersize , and then ream or bore the ID to finish size in the same setup. Part off. Mill a set screw flat on it. With a .016(or whatever you have handy) slitting saw, slit it NEARLY in half. Perfectly suitable tool bushing. It gets a little more complicated if you are going to heat treat them.
    OTOH Keep any eye open in Ebay and snag some there. Hardinge, Somma, and Spellman are all good.

    Another thing. Whenever possible check the floating tool holders in person. These things get abused and some of the shanks can be bent or the threads stripped out.

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  • pntrbl
    replied
    I had no idea there were so many things you could stick in a turret. So far all I've done is ring mine with drill chucks and a dead center, but I can see where that needs to change!

    Some questions;

    On the tapping devices how do you deal with all of the various tap shank sizes?

    Knee and box tools are used for cutting what? Small shoulders?

    How important are the adj chuck holders? My particular turret has been bored to 13/16" holes and they seem to be accurate. As long as I give the turret a good wiggle to make sure the pin's fully seated and then remember to clamp it down the dead center is true to the spindle. Within .001 at somewhere over a foot. I checked it with a test cut when I put the lathe together ....

    Now that I think about it I did have to shim the rear gib forward .002 to get that cut. Are the adj. mounts for correcting that sort of thing?

    SP

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