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  • #16
    Originally posted by lazlo
    Edit: Bob, that Rivett is stunning -- who's machine is that?
    Sigh, unknown. I have it in my blog, but the link back to PM just goes to the main page. Probably one of their many reorgs zapped it. A determined searcher could no doubt find the lathe again and determine whose it was.

    Sorry,

    BW
    ---------------------------------------------------

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Alistair Hosie
      USA products cost us twice the price and more when we get them so please sirr reconsider and feel sorry for us once again your homble servant the little devil
      Alistair, with the current value of the US dollar just short of the Peso, buying American tools and having them shipped overseas is cheaper than ever before.

      I used to buy stuff on the UK Ebay and have it shipped here, but especially lately, Ebay's "(Approximately US $xx.yy)" conversion has been frightful.

      I work with some guys from Barcelona, and they were here in Austin a couple weeks before Christmas, and wanted to go by Best Buy. They're paid in Euros (obviously), and the exchange rate is so good...
      "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by macona

        Most of the Esabs in the US, especially the larger machines are all USA designed and manufactured. Many are just repainted Ltecs. Only a couple smaller migs, tigs, and plasmas are made in Europe and they are all crap.
        Read this

        http://www.esab.co.uk/gb/en/about/1996-2006.cfm

        My 200 amp ESAB was made in Sweden. It has a duty cycle of 200 amp 60% and 160 amps at 100%

        There is no fan fitted to this machine and it doen't need one.

        .
        .

        Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by John Stevenson
          My 200 amp ESAB was made in Sweden.
          I didn't want to say anything about Esab, but John's right, of course -- the Esab Multimaster is made in Italy, the 350 MPI is USA (Portland), and most of the rest of the ESAB TIGs are made in Sweden.

          Most of the ESAB plasma cutters are made in Italy.

          Edit: while we're at it Macona, the Thermal Arc TIG welders that you and I got for Christmas are made for Thermadyne by Sanrex, in Japan
          Last edited by lazlo; 01-04-2008, 09:05 PM.
          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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          • #20
            Mammon

            Get real fellas..

            There is a lot of "romance" and "romancing" here about times that are either long gone or never existed either at all or in the way they are promoted or presented.

            The so-called "good old days" probably never existed in large part either - especially for those that had to "live" them!!.

            Just ask some of the "old-timers" (the few who are alive or have recorded things as they were) who worked those machines in some that were hell-holes under often appalling conditions on bare subsistence wages. They were just hired and fired at the whim of those "in charge". They either found work or they "went without" (or starved).

            Just to set the record straight, I agree that much of the USA-made tools and machines were excellent and set the bench-mark "in their day". But so did some of the British (UK) and European stuff - a lot of which was world-class.

            Times have changed and"moved on" and so should we if we don't want to be left mumbling in a corner and largely ignored.

            We have similar "rust belts" here where Government Grants/Subsidies ("hand-outs") rarely if ever filtered down to those on "the shop floor". Most got "siphoned off" - "Foreign Aid" was not too much different either.

            I'd suggest that neither the USA nor Europe could function without the low-paid immigrants - particularly in some sectors that have the "Government ear". There is a lot of "low pay" and "low paid workers" in South America that that both relies on and is relied upon by some sectors in the USA.

            Don't complain about costs etc. This is the way it is - get used to it.

            As far as "sellers" (of most of not all ilks) are concerned, you, as a "buyer" are just a "source of revenue" or an "opportunity".

            The thing that rules according to a common thread here is "Mammon".
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon

            You should see the chasing of something for nothing or very little that goes on here!!!.

            People that sell stuff do it for a profit. Others do it out of desperation. The rest are in between.

            Businesses are quite entitled to make their own "call" and charge what ever they like - that's their right. Competition or lack of it will soon settle things down. That's "the market forces" in play. I realise that that is more than a bit simplistic - but the fundamentals are pretty right.

            Well mostly.

            I haven't seen many true altruists or philanthropists here - perhaps there are - I just haven't seen them. But I'll bet that there are plenty still looking for 'em for all this largess'.
            http://www.tfd.com/altruist
            http://www.tfd.com/philanthropy

            There seems to be a bit of "Cargo Cult" as well as "Navel gazing" and "lotus eating" here.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navel_gazing
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Eaters

            I would bet that if your Pension Fund or your shares portfolio had shares or interests in some of these companies that you complain about and you thought the returns were too low, you'd be on the phone yelling.

            FWIW, the rest of the world IS making good product and doing very well selling their product at what can only be competitive prices in the "Developed World".

            If you are so keen to buy "made in the USA" stuff - go and buy it and be sure that the whole "food chain" from raw material through manufacture to end-seller is in the USA and will make a sustainable profit and "return on investment" etc. and you will have done your industry proud.

            But if you go and buy it "cheap" from eBay or anywhere other than the USA, your "case" is at best "iffy".

            All of our automotive industry (among many) here in OZ is wholly-owned by parent companies in the USA, Europe and Japan. We are used to it and don't complain.

            Well - of course we do, as there's no shortage of people who want something for less or nothing here either.

            In short - if you don't like the product or its source or its cost - either don't buy it or go without.

            It might be instructive if you were to compare yourselves with the rest of the world and see how badly (if??) you are off in comparison.

            The main reason so many see so much of "China" et. al. is that they are spending too much time and effort looking over their shoulder and all they see is "China". Well, if that's so, then it seems that "China" is not only catching up but is looking and planning ahead - not behind.

            Perhaps if (when??) China has overtaken you, you will at least have to look forward for a change to see it.

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            • #21
              oldtiffie,
              You made a lot of interesting points. It will take awhile to digest them. I've only clicked on one link so far (Cargo cults) and it seems a little out there, but I liked the mention of Vanuatu. An old friend who now just sees the world in his sailboat has told great stories of Vanuatu. I think the key words were- kava root. A great place for an old prop forward from what I hear.

              Regards,
              John

              Comment


              • #22
                mm
                lets see

                got a starrett combination square
                a south bend model 9A
                skilsaw classic

                delta mortiser which is supposed to be USA but made in the far east

                thats' it, except for the Bridgeport and hardinge .which were made/or assembled (not sure...cause i think just the bodywork is uk) in the uk.
                another Bridgeport br2j head.....a Bridgeport slotter.
                rest is German, Italian,danish or British .....no major far east stuff...except for tooling.

                bet you USA guys would be hard pressed to find anything brand new... worth having, still made in the USA.



                all the best.markj

                Comment


                • #23
                  kava

                  Originally posted by jmm360
                  oldtiffie,
                  You made a lot of interesting points. It will take awhile to digest them. I've only clicked on one link so far (Cargo cults) and it seems a little out there, but I liked the mention of Vanuatu. An old friend who now just sees the world in his sailboat has told great stories of Vanuatu. I think the key words were- kava root. A great place for an old prop forward from what I hear.

                  Regards,
                  John
                  Thanks John.

                  Stay away from that Kava Juice.

                  Friends of mine in the Navy were somewhere in Micro-Nesia/Melanesia and had what they said was "not a lot" of kava.

                  Seems most were "spaced out". One was "lost" and was found sitting on a log "warming his hands on the moon" - and he believed it!!
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kava

                  I must say that after reading that Wiki-P item that I think I may have had the "p*ss" "taken out of me" - but it seemed plausible at the time. (Perhaps I'd put too much p*ss into myself - common habit then!!).

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BobWarfield
                    Standard Modern Lathes: made in Canada. Supposed to be quite good, FWIW.

                    Cheers,

                    BW

                    Interesting, had never hear of them before and their web site does show them to be manufactured in Mississauga.

                    Learn something new every day. Still, I have never seen one.

                    cheers, Graham

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Funny that esab site dosnt mention buying LTec. They also bought into Airco as well and for a time there were machine all identical, one saying Airco, Esab, and Ltec.

                      The Migmaster 250 and 251 are still made here. Virtually the same design as the LTec Migmaster 250 and has the same part numbers. The power cuts are still made here and they share a little heritage with the old LTec machines. The big plasmas like the ESP-100, ESP-200, and EPP-200 are all made here and are all based on the same control board that Ltec had used for years.

                      The HandyPlasmas are all made in italy though they did move some production of the 550 over here. The smaller Migmaster 203 and 170 are made overseas as well. These machines are all unadulterated crap. Flimsy stamped sheet metal. Horrible electrical connectors that must be hot glued to keep them together. Ugh! Had a customer bring a 203 in this week that looks like it toasted itself. Filled his garage with smoke and tripped the breaker.

                      These are the same machines on the UK site that the sell here. Junk, junk, junk...

                      http://products.esab.com/Templates/T041.asp?id=120247


                      Lazlo, yeah, it has a big ass, but thats what hides everything that makes the EE do what it can (finish wise) and some say no other lathe can. Dont know myself as I have never used a HLV. I would say is more of late 1920's -1930s art deco than 100 years old... If it was turn of the century there would hardly be any covers.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by macona
                        Lazlo, yeah, it has a big ass, but thats what hides everything that makes the EE do what it can (finish wise) and some say no other lathe can.
                        Hey now, some guys like that (a big ass)

                        Seriously, no argument here Macona -- the 10EE is one of the finest lathes ever made. I hope someday to have the shop space for one, but the thyratron drive system scares me, and I'm an electrical engineer What are the C16J's running for these days -- $500 each?
                        Last edited by lazlo; 01-04-2008, 11:24 PM.
                        "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Whew!!...and I had thought of upgrading too...

                          Originally posted by macona
                          These are the same machines on the UK site that the sell here. Junk, junk, junk...
                          http://products.esab.com/Templates/T041.asp?id=120247
                          A friend has the Origo C150, should I inform him of his good fortune in migs?

                          Thanks goodness I have my Lincoln SP-170T; it must be good, it is made in Australia I have a made in USA cover plate if that will improve it??
                          Ken.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by speedy
                            Thanks goodness I have my Lincoln SP-170T; it must be good, it is made in Australia I have a made in USA cover plate if that will improve it??
                            Wow, that's surprising -- I thought all Lincoln and Miller was Made in USA.

                            I have the 175 Plus, which is Made in USA, but it's better than your Australian Lincoln because it has the official Nascar logo on it
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Right on the money

                              Originally posted by Alistair Hosie
                              whay cant we get more good quality made in the U S A stuff here in the U K it seems very difficult unless you either pay way over U S prices or send off to the states and have shipping,import taxes etc added I wish we could get a lot more here or even some USA stores as I have been to the states many times and have always found the quality very good.

                              Originally posted by macona
                              ..........................................
                              ...........................................

                              As far as Colchester goes, have you seen the prices of parts??? At $1000 for a handle and $750 for a cross slide nut you could buy several SBs.

                              There are still a LOT of good products coming out from every part of the US, just your not going to find them at Walmart.
                              Thanks macona.

                              That has - at last - both "hit the nail on the head" and - hopefully - brought the thread back to focus on Alistair Hosie's original post (copied at the top of this post - in case some "forgot").
                              There are still a LOT of good products coming out from every part of the US, just your not going to find them at Walmart.
                              I read a lot of forums from the USA as well as some HSM magazines.

                              I can only agree with you as regards USA-made quality and creativity.

                              From reading this and other similar threads, it seems that some don't want to pay Walmart prices either - it often seems to be "eBay or nothing".

                              I am not against "shopping around" at all - I do it myself and encourage it.

                              Some people have the time and temperament to get a "bargain" and "do it up" or "modify it to suit" etc. Great stuff and my congratulations to them.

                              I guess your comment could be re-stated as being that there is lots of such USA-made stuff - presumably new - that is more than some want to pay.

                              That is not a problem unique to the USA. It also applies in Europe, UK, here in OZ and doubtless, other places as well.

                              "Used", "second-hand" ("pre-loved"??) USA-made machines and equipment are in short supply and are "high cost" items here. I suspect that to be the case in the UK as well.

                              I also suspect that the supply of older "near-new" "Made in USA" stuff is dwindling and the price of scrap is increasing to the extent that a similar "supply shortage" and "cost/price pressure" will soon similarly apply in the USA as well. I guess that it happening in some parts already.

                              That being the case, if "old" cost rises to a premium, so will "new" to maintain the "price differential" and the cost pressures to "buy Asian" may well increase as well for those with tight budgets or shortage of time etc.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I got it slightly(?) wrong

                                Original plate states.
                                Made in Australia
                                The Lincoln Electric Co (Aust) Pty Ltd
                                38 Bryant St, Padstow, NSW 2211, Sydney .

                                The replacement states:
                                Australian made with local and U.S.A components.
                                The Lincoln.........
                                SYDNEY, NSW. AUSTRALIA.

                                Local components? USA components? sourced from where?? I guess it takes a bit of digging to discover. Nowadays it is the quality($) or lack of it($) that determines whether we purchase it or not. National borders, ie people, don't count for much in commerce; unless you are purchasing.
                                Ken.

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