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  • 5-Axis CNC on a Taig

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-tXDEvAqg

    The silly thing is a kit that doesn't even cost that much:

    http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/trunnion.html

    Now we need to see someone program it. Maybe they can use Rainea's stuff.

    Cheers,

    BW
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  • #2
    That's really slick Bob!

    I didn't read through all the posts on the Evan/John flat gear thread, but based on your comments, I'm guessing Mach doesn't support 5-axis control?

    Or is it that there's not affordable CAM that supports 5 axis?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

    Comment


    • #3
      Mach can support 6 axis, whether anyone can program in it is another thing

      Pins 1 to 9 14, 16 and 17 are outputs so 12 outputs, thats 6 axis for step and direction although some are dedicated to other uses at the moment on mills like 17 for the charge pump that prevents the controller doing anything until windows is running.

      It is posible to fit a second parallel port card to get more inputs and outputs or use a USB to parallel port controller that's in beta at the moment

      Rabs software should work.
      When someone put that you tube link up the other day of the trunnion table I thought then how easy it would be to build one, note I said build, not use.
      It's only two rotabs when you think about it with an underslung plate.

      .
      .

      Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by John Stevenson
        Mach can support 6 axis, whether anyone can program in it is another thing
        I'm still missing something John -- are you saying that the CAM necessary to drive 5 axis is not affordable?

        I just re-read your post about the motorcycle gearbox cam, and you're writing raw G-Code for it. But wouldn't you just model the object as a solid model, run it through a 4-axis CAM program, and not care how many lines of G-Code the CAM program generated?
        "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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        • #5
          I tell you what would be sweet to make outta that thing is a 5-axis tool grinder. Given that it's a canned job, a bet some math whiz like Marv Klotz could figure out a parameterized program to do it. Heck, Sir John, you figured out a gear hobber, so maybe you're our man for it.

          Add a little facility to do form tool work. It would be an amazing gadget for pretty darned cheap.

          Hmmm.



          BW
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          • #6
            Originally posted by lazlo
            I'm still missing something John -- are you saying that the CAM necessary to drive 5 axis is not affordable?
            No, Rabs CNC Tookit which uses a free version of G-Max is about £100 / $200 which to some might be too much but it's a lot cheaper than aa lot of 3 axis programs.
            I did read on his forum that he's contemplating offering a 3 axis version for about £20 / $40

            I just re-read your post about the motorcycle gearbox cam, and you're writing raw G-Code for it. But wouldn't you just model the object as a solid model, run it through a 4-axis CAM program, and not care how many lines of G-Code the CAM program generated?
            That may work but I don't have a 4 axis CAM program to check it.

            What I do in this case is to draw the part, in this case it could be a cam track or a name to be engraved on a ring or a numbered scale to be transposed onto a dial.

            I draw it out flat with the X equal to the width and the Y equal to the circumference, Pi * D

            In Dolphin I then select the operation but bracket it with the start rotary axis and end rotary axis commands.
            What this then does is change any arcs to small line moves as none of the low end controllers can circular interpolate in 4 axis or even 3.
            It also transposes the Y for A.
            You get a long code but who's bothered nowadays.

            .
            .

            Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BobWarfield
              I tell you what would be sweet to make outta that thing is a 5-axis tool grinder. Given that it's a canned job, a bet some math whiz like Marv Klotz could figure out a parameterized program to do it. Heck, Sir John, you figured out a gear hobber, so maybe you're our man for it.

              Add a little facility to do form tool work. It would be an amazing gadget for pretty darned cheap.

              Hmmm.



              BW
              Yes Bob that is interesting and could be a move forward from an idea I have at the moment but something I have no time to pursue.

              Tool and cutter grinders are much sought after, whether they are ever used is another matter

              There are many kits out there, the Quorn, Tinker, and may others but to me they all look over complicated, twist this, angle this, adjust this, ear of bat, tongue of newt.

              To most people they would be happy to sharpen a few drills and touch the cutting edges up on a few milling cutters.
              Sharpening flutes and doing ball ends is not needed by many.

              I have identified a setup that uses three off the shelf machine parts costing new about $300 but it may be possible to use existing parts laying about.
              Add to this about a weekends work and a lump of MDF and you have a T&C grinder for simple work.

              The beauty of this is that it works off a table of settings. Set the cutter touching on the wheel and zero three dials. Move one dial to give you the angle, the second dial to give feed in and the third dial is rotary so for a 4 flute cutter it would work in 90 degree increments.
              Do all 4 cutting edges then reset the first dial to give the clearance angle and feed the second dial in to a new setting off the table to grind the clearance.

              So ignoring the rotary moves of the cutter holder which will be a 5C spin indexer you have two moves on one screw that affects the angle and a total of 8 infeed moves to 2 preset points from a table.

              The same applies to a drill but then it's two angle moves and 4 infeed moves.
              The table is easy as the size of cutters work like gear cutters and only change as they get larger and can be banded.
              So the same setting will do drills from 1/16" to 3/32", 3/32" to 1/8", 1/8"to 3/16", 3/16" to 1/4", 1/4" to 3/8", 3/8" to 1/2" etc.
              Not saying these bands are correct but it just gives an idea.

              Because it uses presets from a table it's very easy to CNC it and then operate the screws via steppers and use a macro to grind a cutter for the next stage.
              .

              Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by John Stevenson
                That may work but I don't have a 4 axis CAM program to check it.
                OK, thanks for the explanation John -- now I understand the issue.

                So software like MasterCAM can do 5-axis CAM, but it's way out of the price range of a hobbyist.

                By the way, I was just reading the MasterCAM specs, and it's not clear from the brochure whether they do simultaneous 5-axis CAM?
                • ...
                • Machine using 5-axis depth cuts.
                • ...
                • Create 5-axis contour toolpaths around the surface edges of the model for applications such as trimming vacuum-formed parts.
                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I believe it works in modules, you buy or upgrade to what you need but the crux is they charge for the post processors, someone mention 20K just for a post processor

                  When I first got into CNC I was totally green [ so was the machine ] and realised I need a way to program it. I had heard of Mastercam but didn't know anything about it so I rang the UK agent up and explained I was new and needed a program.
                  He asked if I wanted to do 3D sufaces like molds etc and being green thought it might be a good idea to be able to do this sort of work.

                  "Aahh then you need Mastercam level 3" I was told.

                  "How much is that ?"

                  "Level 3 is £14,000" [ that's about $28,000 ]

                  "Oh perhaps I need to just do 2-1/2 D work then........"

                  "In which case you need level 1 "

                  "Aahh, that sounds better, how much is level 1 ?"

                  "That's only £7,000 Sir " [about $14,000 ]

                  Me,

                  "In that case then I think we ought to end this conversation before one of use gets financially embarrassed "

                  -----------------
                  .

                  Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you guys ever look at CAM prices, they seem to be an exponential curve that takes off rapidly as soon as you get into the interesting stuff.

                    Adding a 4th axis is one of the exponential multipliers. With rare exceptions such as Rab's (Rainea) stuff, 5-axis is completely untouchable.

                    It has hardly mattered because not too many were ready for that on the amateur side. However, it seems like the hardware is moving ahead and will soon be held up by the software.

                    It's hard to think about it in your head, but the toolpath strategies used by a lot of that software is not so hard that it couldn't be made. I expect some bright eyed and bushy tailed software guy cum machinist will get around to it eventually and that will be fun to watch.

                    John, your tool grinder idea sounds interesting. I can only guess at what combination of components you envision, but I'm assuming something similar to the rash of simple grinders we saw earlier based on 5C collet indexers and gizmos like Lane's universal vise.

                    It would be fascinating to have a compact grinder sharpener that could sit in a corner and be occasionally fired up to work its magic. Were I to build one, I would look into quick disconnects for the steppers. It doesn't seem worthwhile to dedicate a controller and PC to something I wouldn't use very often.

                    My interest in this is to eventually figure out how to build a CNC knife grinder. It's still hazy in my head, but I am envisioning something that works in conjunction with your classic 3 wheel belt grinder for knives. It has to be able to capture the blended curves used on custom blades, which can be pretty exotic. I'm playing with Rhino 3D to understand the dynamics of how the blade has to contact that belt/wheel and I've already learned some useful things.

                    I'll cogitate some more on it.

                    Best,

                    BW
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