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  • wire rope install

    I know this is not exactly machining related, but I've searched everywhere I can think of and found out everything you ever wanted to know about wire rope but were afraid to ask.... except how to spool it onto a winch drum.
    I have 350 feet of 5/8" rotation resistant hoist line that I need to put on a hoist drum, but I don't know if or how to start winding the line on the drum under tension so the top layers don't jam or dammage the initial layer or layers of line.
    Any help would be appreciated.


    Thanks
    Steve

  • #2
    Unless the winch in question has a reeling unit, then it's going to bunch up under use regardless.

    However, the way I'd put the rope on, is to unroll the rope onto the ground, attach some ballast to the end of it (something with some weight, but will slide over the ground fairly easily, or just somebody pulling against it), then reel it on.
    As you reel it on, just make sure it winds on tight together. If you can't guide the rope as it winds on, stop the winch every couple of turns, and lever/push the rope tight together.

    Comment


    • #3
      When I spool my winch on my off road buggy, I hook the cable to a telephone pole, spool all of the cable out with my vehicle in neutral at the end of it, and use the remote to reel it in. As the cable spools up, I use a piece of 2x2 w/ two nails in the end to guide how it is spooling. You can keep it tight and nicely spooled.

      You don't tell us the application, so this may not work for you. I kind of doubt you are trying to spool a automotive self recovery winch though, I have not see one yet that will hold 350' of wire!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by M_C
        Unless the winch in question has a reeling unit, then it's going to bunch up under use regardless.
        It should spool up fine if you get the first wrap right.

        I put the reel of new wire on a pipe on stands facing the drum and mirror oriented, if the drum winds over the top, the new reel should unwind over the top.

        Rig a friction board to rub on the reel flange for a little strain.

        The first turn on the first wrap sets everything up, have a mallet and prybar handy. As the first turn gets about 2/3 of a revolution back to the wedge socket gently taper it away from the flange so it lines up snug against the first turn where it began. As you take up more turns tap them snug with the hammer but don't deform your original taper. The rest should take care of itself, if it's the right size wire rope for the drum.

        At least that works for me on crawler cranes, I've done quite a few.

        Good luck,
        John

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jmm360
          It should spool up fine if you get the first wrap right.

          I put the reel of new wire on a pipe on stands facing the drum and mirror oriented, if the drum winds over the top, the new reel should unwind over the top.

          Rig a friction board to rub on the reel flange for a little strain.

          The first turn on the first wrap sets everything up, have a mallet and prybar handy. As the first turn gets about 2/3 of a revolution back to the wedge socket gently taper it away from the flange so it lines up snug against the first turn where it began. As you take up more turns tap them snug with the hammer but don't deform your original taper. The rest should take care of itself, if it's the right size wire rope for the drum.

          At least that works for me on crawler cranes, I've done quite a few.

          Good luck,
          John
          Thanks for the input , it is a grove rt48 that I'm working on that had r.h. lay 1/2" rusted, crushed, bird nest cable on it. All the load charts and owner's manual reference 5/8'' so I hope it will fit the drum width I have not checked yet I'm resting up from the removal process.

          Thanks
          Steve

          Comment


          • #6
            Wire rope has sometimes a mind of it's own and can be a bugger to work with especially if it has a few kiks here or there good luck hope it works out for you patience will help.Alistair
            Please excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

            Comment


            • #7
              Usually a pic is worth ten thou words, but spooling wire cable on a drum can seem like a life long learning. Here's thirty thousand words:

              Pic shows anchored machine which continuously applies desired tension, in our case, 300 lbs on a 1/4 inch dia. wireline. Tension brake is water cooled for larger winding jobs, ie. 25,000 feet of 11/16 in. dia. cable wound onto hoist under 2,000 lbs. of tension.

              http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...ingmachine.jpg

              Pic shows first layer being spooled onto new spool, 12 inches twix flanges. Big chore to keep wire smack up, next to last wrap, and under tension. Feller with hammer/chisel is actually pushing cable horizontally on spool core, making it as tight as he can. With a 12 inch width spool and loading 1/4 inch cable, good technique on first three layers will determine how well the additional layers will spool on. With 75 ft. or more of tensioned cable between the floor machine and the spool, level winding will be automatic after the first three wraps, or so.

              http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...ofcableno2.jpg

              Pic shows an identically dimensioned hoist/spool, with level winder. This hoist contains over 5,000 ft of wireline and has been in use for over two years. Level winder is required since lifted weights can vary from 35 lbs. to 300 lbs.

              http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...oolofcable.jpg

              Living and working with wirelines of any size is a lifelong learning process. Walk a mile in the man's shoes, and----------

              G

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Guido
                Usually a pic is worth ten thou words, but spooling wire cable on a drum can seem like a life long learning. Here's thirty thousand words:









                G
                Thanks for the thirty thou. but now I'm more intrested in your projects than mine! What is all that line used for?
                Steve

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dr.Demo------These small hoists are driven with chain/hydraulic motor via hydrostatic pump. Used for lowering/retrieving instruments, ie. video camera, depth specific samplers, and a multitude of electrical devices for determining wellbore characteristics in domestic or irrigation water wells.

                  Whatever you say, don't say 'water witching' or you'll stir up a bunch of board members.

                  G

                  You mention your project for tomorrow: changing out a cable on a construction hoist/crane? If the core of the drum is grooved, like a barber pole, for the first layer of rope to lay in, it will not like having a wrong diameter of new rope installed. Likewise, any sheaves which have grooves dimensioned for specific size rope diameters, will trash the wrong/new rope in a heart beat. YMMV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Guido
                    Dr.Demo------These small hoists are driven with chain/hydraulic motor via hydrostatic pump. Used for lowering/retrieving instruments, ie. video camera, depth specific samplers, and a multitude of electrical devices for determining wellbore characteristics in domestic or irrigation water wells.

                    Whatever you say, don't say 'water witching' or you'll stir up a bunch of board members.

                    G

                    You mention your project for tomorrow: changing out a cable on a construction hoist/crane? If the core of the drum is grooved, like a barber pole, for the first layer of rope to lay in, it will not like having a wrong diameter of new rope installed. Likewise, any sheaves which have grooves dimensioned for specific size rope diameters, will trash the wrong/new rope in a heart beat. YMMV
                    I would never dream of saying or typing wa**r wit**ing although I have used on more than one occasion wit**ing wires to locate pipes befor digging very succesfuly. But back to the crane drum: it is not grooved, and I believe that the wire rope is correct to that model I think it had smaller wire on it for economic reasons
                    Thanks
                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Steve,

                      Wired a couple thou, probably, overhead traveling cranes, quite a few dozen Grove, Pettibone and other brand rubber tired "chery pickers".

                      You need'nt worry about how the wire lays. Nice to see it wrapped neatly when done, but after a few uses, the wires will NOT be neatly laid.

                      Single lay on a scored drum, USUALLY the wire will fall in place. Side pull, wire can go anyplace, including over the rim of the drum and wrap around a 6 inch shaft.

                      Whatever you do, don't lay it on the ground to wind it. It has some lube on it, and will pick up grit, which will cause premature wear. Better you could run it through a greasy rag as it feeds off the reel. Surface lube.

                      You mention anti rotate. Is this the second hoist on that 48, the high speed? Generally speaking, multiple fall does not use anti rotate wire.

                      Reeling off the cable reel to wire a crane the wrong way CAN make you think you need anti rotate wire.

                      Good luck with your project.

                      Cheers,

                      George

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Steve
                        What ever you do DON't let the wire rope run through your hand! a broken strand can catch your hand and at best give you a nasty cut and at worst, skewer your hand and drag you into the new drum.

                        I haven't worked directly with wire rope in a while, but... With luck, a properly laid spool up on a picker or crane can lay neatly and repeatedly since there is rarely any change in tracking onto the spool from the "crown" sheave and winding speed on cranes is relatively low.
                        I'm surprised a rigging handbook doesn't have instructions for winding line on the drum .. I have a "Riggers Handbook" laying around I think has it, but it is hard copy only AFAIK. There is a IPT "riggers' Handbook" as well that covers winding, again hard copy only... Whose rope is it? Wright's? The manufacturer should have info...
                        Cam

                        http://moxietraining.com/programs/of..._wire_rope.htm
                        Last edited by camdigger; 01-21-2008, 02:48 PM.
                        Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=camdigger]Steve
                          What ever you do DON't let the wire rope run through your hand! a broken strand can catch your hand and at best give you a nasty cut and at worst, skewer your hand and drag you into the new drum.

                          Thank you all for responding to this thread!
                          As I think I said I'm replacing dammaged 1/2'' wire rope with 5/8'' rotation resistant new wire rope. The owners manual leeds me to believe that this the correct rope .My concern was tensioning the rope properly upon initial install,and I think that between the research and the responces re'cd. I have a greater respect and insight to how to achieve a properly installed length rope on the drum.
                          Once again, Thank You All.
                          Steve

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I used to work with wire rope on a regular basis. I used to be employed by a heavy duty towing company. When ever we put new cable on the drums we just hooked to another truck that had its brakes set and pulled it in. This wasn't nearly the tension that the tow truck would experience when doing a hard recovery, but it did keep the wire rope from pulling down into itself. This also helped train the wire rope to lay correctly. Good luck
                            Darrin.

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